Willie Hantz, Week 2 (Out - July 20)

[Guest Corky812]

First off, I just want to say that a "good ol' boy" background is not a southern thing to me, but a mentality within a family or social group (believe me, that relates right her in Santa Barbara, California). The Hantz family would stick together like flies on horse poop if one of their own murdered someone in front of 100 witnesses.

Willie has an admitted violent history which he related to the house. Watching the tape Brandon, Russel and Brandon's dad made, they don't see anything wrong with the way Willie behaved. To Willie, Joe putting his arms in front of him to protect himself was "putting up his dukes". Seriously, what would you do when a guy is in your face yelling "hit me, hit me"?

Willie says he's not a violent person but he admittedly broke into an ex's house and beat the snot out of her boyfriend. Apology after the fact of a violent act does not make it any less of a violent act.

Unfortunately, I see more violence from Willie (and prob his family) down the road, ie: beating someone (probably several someone's) who say anything to him/them about getting kicked out of Big Brother or his behavior.

Personally, I think CBS better cut their loses and let the Hantz' fade into the background. I do not think putting Willie (or any other Hantz) on another reality show at this point would be wise.

[Canucklehead]

Joe should have had something happen to him even if it meant a penalty nomination but he got away scott free! He did instigate the situation with Willie and he definitely exaggerated the entire thing with Willie's hat hitting his nose ... obviously if you read Mike's comments on the Morty's main page according to Mike he headbutted Joe 4 times? ...

I'm not suggesting what I think they did was wrong but I don't agree with Joe getting a free pass in the confrontation that he instigated.

[Catwishes]

First off, I just want to say that a "good ol' boy" background is not a southern thing to me, but a mentality within a family or social group (believe me, that relates right her in Santa Barbara, California). The Hantz family would stick together like flies on horse poop if one of their own murdered someone in front of 100 witnesses.

Willie has an admitted violent history which he related to the house. Watching the tape Brandon, Russel and Brandon's dad made, they don't see anything wrong with the way Willie behaved. To Willie, Joe putting his arms in front of him to protect himself was "putting up his dukes". Seriously, what would you do when a guy is in your face yelling "hit me, hit me"?

Willie says he's not a violent person but he admittedly broke into an ex's house and beat the snot out of her boyfriend. Apology after the fact of a violent act does not make it any less of a violent act.

Unfortunately, I see more violence from Willie (and prob his family) down the road, ie: beating someone (probably several someone's) who say anything to him/them about getting kicked out of Big Brother or his behavior.

Personally, I think CBS better cut their loses and let the Hantz' fade into the background. I do not think putting Willie (or any other Hantz) on another reality show at this point would be wise.

You have a point with them sticking together - of course they will - they are brothers/nephew/family. Willie just did not have the temperment to handle a high-pressure situation such as the BB house. Like he said in the video, he let his pride get in the way.

And what would I do in this situation? Knowing me, stand up and smirk in his face or turn my back and walk away. Not sure how long it would take the security people to come to my defense.

[Guest Corky812]

I have to respectfully disagree that Joe should get a penalty nomination. If he should than so should everyone else in the house, including the coaches. Big Brother rules say nothing about verbal bully, bashing lifestyles and backgrounds, or trash talking people and their families (as wrong as that is), ONLY about physical violence.

I remember Alison and Jun destroying something Robert's daughter made for him and saying "the b*&%c will never see it again". Seriously, what kind of people say something like that about someone's kid on national tv, but nothing was done about it.

Willie was a loose cannon and this confrontation was going to happen sooner or later with him.

[rachfan4life]

Ok, my 2 cents with a penny change:

There are lots of "at faults" in this situation:

First faults go to production;

They deliberately went out and recruited "a Hantz' for ratings.

They give psychological tests to these players and this one was textbook.

They put in this stupid coach twist just to bring back some of their "has been" HG's, which everyone

figured out pretty quickly was clearly production controlling the game as much as they could.

Expect the Unexpected should be changed to Expect to be Blindsided by Production

Production should have tried to diffuse some of this in the Diary Room instead of allowing it to escalate

the way it did. They have psychologists on staff, and they should have seen this coming.

The fans and other HG's knew Willie was going to explode.

Next set of faults to Brittany:

She is the worst excuse for a coach and a poor excuse for a BB player. She pretended to support Willie but then she not only turned on him but took the whole house with her.

brittany constantly berated Willie, kept after him telling him what a loser he was, everyone hates him, he's responsible for her looking bad (seriously, nobody needs to take that).

Next to the house:

Ok, Willie was a pain and obviously a hothead so why push his buttons. Brittany saw her 100K slipping away (like she was going to win in the first place - big joke) so she jumped ship, Janelle mocking him "obviously I'm choosing Willie for slop", tJoJo "I'm sorry but I just can't associate with you" and Joe not keeping his big mouth shut.

Willie:

He has a temper and he does not know how to diffuse it, did not even try by going into DR, asking to talk to a shrink.

Unfortunately, he also comes from a "good ol' boy" background where things are pretty much solved with fists, so that's what he understands.

Also (I think, so just my opinion) he feels women should be "love, honor and OBEY" and they are not supposed to talk back to you or talk down to you.

He came into the game with a chip on his shoulder, did not come to play with a coach (especially such a stupid and vindictive one), did not come to be coached, managed or controlled and it backfired because that's not what production had in mind for this season.

He's a Hantz and this is just what Hantz' do.

Actually Willie did try to go into the DR just moments before all of this stuff went down..He stood at the door a good 3 mins buzzing and buzzing ( also knowing producton is ALWAYS watching) And the REFUSED to let him in.....So sorry your wrong about that one....Also the love honro and obey statement could be used however if this were true then Willie would most likely still be in the house considering it was Janelle and Britneys big idea to put Frank and Kara on the block (thinking of only their OWN game)...They just chose to use Willie as the fall guy when chit hit the fan...Also, If I remember correctly in the beginning Willie was all for the "team" until Britney spilled the beans on the whole coach twist idea and he decided/realized he was being manipulated. (If you look back now, janelle was very much using Brit so in essance her team) So as (imo a good sport would do) tried to give the other HGs a heads up while still trying to stay true to his promise to Britney by not telling anyone that SHE was the one who gave him this tib bit of information. But (and with Britneys help) the HGs took it the wrong way and thought that Willie just came out of left field with this information and was trying to force them to play HIS way thru intimidation (threatening that coaches would come in and run the game) If anything Willies biggest down fall was his loyalty to a coach who didnt even so much as deserve the time of day. Because while WIllie was going around protecting her from her "secret" She was going around making WIllie look like a complete fool acting as if she had "no idea" where he came up with that...The funny thing is, if Britney would have just come clean and admitted that she told Willie about the possible coaches twist, SHE could have put a lot of things into perspective for a lot of the HGs and possibly saved WIllie from a lot of the backlash. But instead she was more worried about saving face (her face) and not "having people (coaches) mad at her"...Well funny thing is it STILL all backfired at her and she is still the odd man out as far as coaches are concerned yet she still doesnt have the integrity to be honest, she just alienates her own team member and rallys the troops against him.

Also, I think Willie having the "Hantz" name did him no favors as far as how he is being judged by the HGS AND the fans. If he hadnt already had that "bad boy" stigma attached to him the second he walked into the house peoples objectiveness may have been different. But just like you this is my opinion.

[TML]

Willie and Willie alone is at fault for getting himself kicked out. You can't do what he did. He's a full grown man, who knew the rules of this game. Quit making excuses for his stupidity.

[Slimcruz]

Willie and Willie alone is at fault for getting himself kicked out. You can't do what he did. He's a full grown man, who knew the rules of this game. Quit making excuses for his stupidity.

Okay.

[FeloniousMonk]

Joe should have had something happen to him even if it meant a penalty nomination but he got away scott free! He did instigate the situation with Willie and he definitely exaggerated the entire thing with Willie's hat hitting his nose ... obviously if you read Mike's comments on the Morty's main page according to Mike he headbutted Joe 4 times? ...

I'm not suggesting what I think they did was wrong but I don't agree with Joe getting a free pass in the confrontation that he instigated.

I guess we saw the events differently...

I saw & heard Willie in an explosive mood in the kitchen :::

1. As Joe walked by, heading for the head, Willie called Joe the C-word... (BTW Joe is a person I don't like and would like to see sent packing from the BB house very soon...)
   
2. Joe RESPONDED to Willie with words of his own...
   
3. Willie RESPONDED to Joe's words by charging Joe and screaming like a madman, Hit Me!!! Hit Me!!! Hit Me!!! ...
   
4. Joe RESPONDED to Willie's charge by putting up his fists up & taking a defensive posture, Joe stood his ground, Joe NEVER hit Willie...
   
5. Willie RESPONDED by chest bumping Joe and then Headbutting Joe...
   
6. Willie is told to go to the back bedroom
   
7. Willie is removed from the BB house... (As he should have been... except for self defense and the protection of others from imminent danger, there is NO excuse for violent behavior)
   

Willie should be punished with banishment..

IMHO, Joe is a dirtbag but did not do anything wrong in this interaction...

As they say, ten people see the same event in eleven different ways...

Monk

[FeloniousMonk]

First off, I just want to say that a "good ol' boy" background is not a southern thing to me, but a mentality within a family or social group (believe me, that relates right her in Santa Barbara, California). The Hantz family would stick together like flies on horse poop if one of their own murdered someone in front of 100 witnesses.

Willie has an admitted violent history which he related to the house. Watching the tape Brandon, Russel and Brandon's dad made, they don't see anything wrong with the way Willie behaved. To Willie, Joe putting his arms in front of him to protect himself was "putting up his dukes". Seriously, what would you do when a guy is in your face yelling "hit me, hit me"?

Willie says he's not a violent person but he admittedly broke into an ex's house and beat the snot out of her boyfriend. Apology after the fact of a violent act does not make it any less of a violent act.

Unfortunately, I see more violence from Willie (and prob his family) down the road, ie: beating someone (probably several someone's) who say anything to him/them about getting kicked out of Big Brother or his behavior.

Personally, I think CBS better cut their loses and let the Hantz' fade into the background. I do not think putting Willie (or any other Hantz) on another reality show at this point would be wise.

I'm in total agreement with you...

The Hantz's seem to express themselves in violence... Adding insult to injury, they then appear to be comfortable justifying their violent behavior...

Not a recipe for a peaceful environment...

Monk

[LenRay]

Some people melt down in environments like Big Brother. Like Willie.

[Guest Corky812]

I said it was "my opinion" so please don't attack my opinion or tell me it's wrong.

OK, so Willie tried to get in DR and production would not let him. Add another fault to production for this situation. I feel this was just the end result of something which had been building and I think production should have been talking to Willie prior because anyone could see he was a powder-keg after the fight with Frank. You can see from DR that production asks very leading questions and then edits so we really have no idea what the HG's actually wanted to convey in many cases.

As someone pointed out above, Willie is just not programmed to handle an environment like this. One of our vet techs knows the family and he said they are hot-tempered, explosive and that actually Russell is the nicest of all the boys (go figure that one!)

Basically I really feel that to keep having family members on these shows is ridiculous and unimaginative on the part of production. In this case it backfired on Alison Grodner and made the Hantz family look even worse, but then again, Willie was recruited and he could have turned it down so the chips fall.

[LenRay]

Also last night's CBS show ratings tanked, beaten by the Bachelorette. Grodner should have promoed the fight sequence, letting people know it would be aired Sunday instead of Wednesday...

[FeloniousMonk]

Some people melt down in environments like Big Brother. Like Willie.

I agree... I also agree with those on this board that have pointed a finger at the BB production... AG should have seen this coming, given Willie's background and the Hantz family's outlook on life... AG would be better served to look to the early BB's for HG selection criteria...

Willie did make things interesting... but IMHO, he wasn't suited for this show... (paranoia, followed by bizarre game moves, followed by paranoia, followed by all too public and outrageous verbal fights, followed by paranoia, followed by sulking, followed by threats of physical violence, followed by paranoia, followed by contact... Not good...)

Monk

[Guest Corky812]

I guess we saw the events differently...

I saw & heard Willie in an explosive mood in the kitchen :::

1. As Joe walked by, heading for the head, Willie called Joe the C-word... (BTW Joe is a person I don't like and would like to see sent packing from the BB house very soon...)
   
2. Joe RESPONDED to Willie with words of his own...
   
3. Willie RESPONDED to Joe's words by charging Joe and screaming like a madman, Hit Me!!! Hit Me!!! Hit Me!!! ...
   
4. Joe RESPONDED to Willie's charge by putting up his fists up & taking a defensive posture, Joe stood his ground, Joe NEVER hit Willie...
   
5. Willie RESPONDED by chest bumping Joe and then Headbutting Joe...
   
6. Willie is told to go to the back bedroom
   
7. Willie is removed from the BB house... (As he should have been... except for self defense and the protection of others from imminent danger, there is NO excuse for violent behavior)
   

Willie should be punished with banishment..

IMHO, Joe is a dirtbag but did not do anything wrong in this interaction...

As they say, ten people see the same event in eleven different ways...

Monk

That's the way I saw it also. I don't care for Joe either and he probably should have kept his mouth shut but in all fairness I probably would have said something to Willie also. Janelle put it well "it's our house too".

[Slimcruz]

I am a Dixie Darling who has pretty much traveled the world. I can tell you that the good old boy network is not endemic to the southern states of the United States. I've seen its face on the Ile St-Louis and in the narrow streets of Skopje.

I know not of the Hantz family other than that face portrayed on television. Far be it from me to denigrate an entire family due to the actions of a few members.

Free Willie. Probably not.

That, and a glad hello to one of my fave posters, Felonious Monk.

[rachfan4life]

I guess we saw the events differently...

I saw & heard Willie in an explosive mood in the kitchen :::

1. As Joe walked by, heading for the head, Willie called Joe the C-word... (BTW Joe is a person I don't like and would like to see sent packing from the BB house very soon...)
   
2. Joe RESPONDED to Willie with words of his own...
   
3. Willie RESPONDED to Joe's words by charging Joe and screaming like a madman, Hit Me!!! Hit Me!!! Hit Me!!! ...
   
4. Joe RESPONDED to Willie's charge by putting up his fists up & taking a defensive posture, Joe stood his ground, Joe NEVER hit Willie...
   
5. Willie RESPONDED by chest bumping Joe and then Headbutting Joe...
   
6. Willie is told to go to the back bedroom
   
7. Willie is removed from the BB house... (As he should have been... except for self defense and the protection of others from imminent danger, there is NO excuse for violent behavior)
   

Willie should be punished with banishment..

IMHO, Joe is a dirtbag but did not do anything wrong in this interaction...

As they say, ten people see the same event in eleven different ways...

Monk

Actually WIllie didnt call joe the c word..He made a blanket statement saying bunch of C's in this house (not sure if that the EXACT wording however he didnt specifically call Joe that word)...Wille did go running after Joe, however he stopped a good 2 feet infront of Joe, Joe continued to keep his fist up and in a fighting stance. That is when Willie said hit me blah blah. Then if you watch it was not Willie who backed Joe up proceeding with a chest bump, it was JOE who made that chest bump. and that is when he got a head but to the head. With all that said I dont condone Willies behavior nor do I feel he shouldnt have been expelled from the game. However Joe is just as much at fault in the situation as Willie was. He sought out to have a confrontation with WIllie. (You can see his premeditation by his actions in the HOH just before their fight when he is jumping around like a 5yr old getting all excited about Willie being "about to blow" He made the choice just as much as WIllie did to go down stairs and get involved. Most adults with any amount of common sense and integrity would have given Willie time to cool off and just leave him alone. However Joe chose the dirty low road (yet again)...Ive watch the fight portion of the show several times and it is clear to me they were both to blame in equal parts and that when you get down to it, words are just words, until you touch someone in a threatening way. Which I clearly see Joe doing first. My opinion would be completely different had Willie not stopped 2 feet away from Joe allowing Joe time to pause and think about what he was doing. He CHOSE to continue the physical threatening. IMO Willie had every right to defend himself. The actions of all of these so called adults is appauling to me. It reminds me of the mob mentality in which Jr high school kids would use. Its one thing to ":play the game" and another to just forget basic human kindness and treat another human being in such a disgusting embarrasing way. It wasnt enough for Joe to completely defame Willie and ruin his game with his made up BC he had to continue to rub salt in the wounds and rub it in Willies face every chance he got along with the other HGs..In my world this just isnt how you treat people. Game or no game.

[stevea11]

More than likely before the weeks out Willie should be making his debut on Reality TV Hall of Shame. When he does it will be a clean sweep for the Hantz family.

[sparklet]

First off, I just want to say that a "good ol' boy" background is not a southern thing to me, but a mentality within a family or social group (believe me, that relates right her in Santa Barbara, California). The Hantz family would stick together like flies on horse poop if one of their own murdered someone in front of 100 witnesses.

Willie has an admitted violent history which he related to the house. Watching the tape Brandon, Russel and Brandon's dad made, they don't see anything wrong with the way Willie behaved. To Willie, Joe putting his arms in front of him to protect himself was "putting up his dukes". Seriously, what would you do when a guy is in your face yelling "hit me, hit me"?

Willie says he's not a violent person but he admittedly broke into an ex's house and beat the snot out of her boyfriend. Apology after the fact of a violent act does not make it any less of a violent act.

Unfortunately, I see more violence from Willie (and prob his family) down the road, ie: beating someone (probably several someone's) who say anything to him/them about getting kicked out of Big Brother or his behavior.

Personally, I think CBS better cut their loses and let the Hantz' fade into the background. I do not think putting Willie (or any other Hantz) on another reality show at this point would be wise.

sorry you this way! But this was not willies fault totally. Yes he use head bunts but dont think Willie is a violent person! Joe ran his mouth to a highten Willie! Then Joe puts up his dukes! Now joe is a grown man he should no better! That is a sign he wanted to fight! If you put up your dukes in my world u better be prepared to use them! It so happens that willie hit first! Joe was trying to provoke! He wasnt going to use his fist but he kept moving him like he was going to strike! And then in the DR Acts almost apologetic for putting willie in that situation! This house damages Willies character by to make people believe he was a bully and a homophobic! NOT TRUE! They outrcize him, shun him bascially treating him like he had the plaque! He got a major raw deal! All becuz he did jani and brits dirty work! And when he called the house meeting without the coch roaches Jani got mad and flip the votes! That is why her pettiness is going to get the best of her! But to lump Willie in a category that he is a thug and no good and his family are thugs and no good are way out of line! You dont know his home life and it sounds like to me, whatever the situation is, they got each others back! No matter what and russell has been getting trouble lately becuz of zealous fans getting in his face not realizing it is just a game!

The hantz has a reality show flipping houses! Its funny and of course Russell is Russell! I like to see them more on tv, they are quite entertaining! Funny as @!

[Guest Corky812]

Also last night's CBS show ratings tanked, beaten by the Bachelorette. Grodner should have promoed the fight sequence, letting people know it would be aired Sunday instead of Wednesday...

Well, GOOD. Perhaps Alison Grodner will wake up and smell the slop spoiling and CBS will wake up and tell her to get off her production behind and produce a show more worth watching instead of bringing back the has-been's, the don't wanna see's again and reality tv relatives!!

[rachfan4life]

sorry you this way! But this was not willies fault totally. Yes he use head bunts but dont think Willie is a violent person! Joe ran his mouth to a highten Willie! Then Joe puts up his dukes! Now joe is a grown man he should no better! That is a sign he wanted to fight! If you put up your dukes in my world u better be prepared to use them! It so happens that willie hit first! Joe was trying to provoke! He wasnt going to use his fist but he kept moving him like he was going to strike! And then in the DR Acts almost apologetic for putting willie in that situation! This house damages Willies character by to make people believe he was a bully and a homophobic! NOT TRUE! They outrcize him, shun him bascially treating him like he had the plaque! He got a major raw deal! All becuz he did jani and brits dirty work! And when he called the house meeting without the coch roaches Jani got mad and flip the votes! That is why her pettiness is going to get the best of her! But to lump Willie in a category that he is a thug and no good and his family are thugs and no good are way out of line! You dont know his home life and it sounds like to me, whatever the situation is, they got each others back! No matter what and russell has been getting trouble lately becuz of zealous fans getting in his face not realizing it is just a game!

The hantz has a reality show flipping houses! Its funny and of course Russell is Russell! I like to see them more on tv, they are quite entertaining! Funny as @!

I totally agree, and wanted to add if more of "america" held their family values to the same standard...loyalty...Then I think things would work out a lot better for everyone. But thats a whole other debate entirely lol..

[FeloniousMonk]

I am a Dixie Darling who has pretty much traveled the world. I can tell you that the good old boy network is not endemic to the southern states of the United States. I've seen its face on the Ile St-Louis and in the narrow streets of Skopje.

I know not of the Hantz family other than that face portrayed on television. Far be it from me to denigrate an entire family due to the actions of a few members.

Free Willie. Probably not.

That, and a glad hello to one of my fave posters, Felonious Monk.

Thanks SC... Right back at cha...

Your post has me thinking about my Hantz family statement...

You're right... You said it best in your post... I should not have said what I said about the Hantz family due to the actions of a few family members...

I fell into that statement of mine because I let the fact that the only family members I have seen were the four family members that have expressed this cockeyed outlook on civil behavioral standards.

Thanks... I need a good straightening out once in a while...

Monk

[bigguy117]

sorry you this way! But this was not willies fault totally. Yes he use head bunts but dont think Willie is a violent person! Joe ran his mouth to a highten Willie! Then Joe puts up his dukes! Now joe is a grown man he should no better! That is a sign he wanted to fight! If you put up your dukes in my world u better be prepared to use them! It so happens that willie hit first! Joe was trying to provoke! He wasnt going to use his fist but he kept moving him like he was going to strike! And then in the DR Acts almost apologetic for putting willie in that situation! This house damages Willies character by to make people believe he was a bully and a homophobic! NOT TRUE! They outrcize him, shun him bascially treating him like he had the plaque! He got a major raw deal! All becuz he did jani and brits dirty work! And when he called the house meeting without the coch roaches Jani got mad and flip the votes! That is why her pettiness is going to get the best of her! But to lump Willie in a category that he is a thug and no good and his family are thugs and no good are way out of line! You dont know his home life and it sounds like to me, whatever the situation is, they got each others back! No matter what and russell has been getting trouble lately becuz of zealous fans getting in his face not realizing it is just a game!

Hey Sparklet,

Please don't take this as an attack. I just want to ask you a couple of questions. I agree it just wasn't Willie's fault for the altercation.

You say, "Joe puts up his dukes! Now joe is a grown man he should no better! That is a sign he wanted to fight! If you put up your dukes in my world u better be prepared to use them!"

In your world when someone chases you into a room and is screaming at you, what do you do? Just sit there and take it?

Isn't Willie a grown man? Shouldn't he know better than to head butt someone?

While I agree the whole house was after him, Willie started that all by himself. When Willie himself mentions that he's going to do something that will get him kicked out, how is that not thug mentality?

I wish Willie didn't do this because he is Live Feed Gold watching him.

I totally agree, and wanted to add if more of "america" held their family values to the same standard...loyalty...Then I think things would work out a lot better for everyone. But thats a whole other debate entirely lol..

Loyalty is one thing, blind loyalty is another.

A perfect example is Penn State. I'm not equating the circumstances of what Willie did and what Sandusky did, just pointing out the both sides stayed loyal to the person.

I apoligize for the above example using Sandusky. In my mind I was equating the loyalty shown to Joe Paterno.

Edited July 23, 2012 by bigguy117

[rachfan4life]

I said it was "my opinion" so please don't attack my opinion or tell me it's wrong.

OK, so Willie tried to get in DR and production would not let him. Add another fault to production for this situation. I feel this was just the end result of something which had been building and I think production should have been talking to Willie prior because anyone could see he was a powder-keg after the fight with Frank. You can see from DR that production asks very leading questions and then edits so we really have no idea what the HG's actually wanted to convey in many cases.

As someone pointed out above, Willie is just not programmed to handle an environment like this. One of our vet techs knows the family and he said they are hot-tempered, explosive and that actually Russell is the nicest of all the boys (go figure that one!)

Basically I really feel that to keep having family members on these shows is ridiculous and unimaginative on the part of production. In this case it backfired on Alison Grodner and made the Hantz family look even worse, but then again, Willie was recruited and he could have turned it down so the chips fall.

Im sorry if you felt as if I was trying to attack you opinion. I just think its important to have all the facts before being able to give a fair opinion of someone.

As far as keep having family members on the shows, I totally agree. I have always felt its a shaft to the fans and people who spend so much time and effort trying out for these shows etc. Just as I think constantly bringing back old players (unless its an all star season) is getting boring and like beating a dead horse.

As far as you knowing someone who knows them. Im the type of person who has to get to know someone myself before I can fairly form an opinion of them My opinion of Willie is he prob should not have been on such a high pressure show in the first place however I dont think he is a bad/violent person for being human with feelings. I do agree he needs to find better ways of expressing himself. But it doesnt make the actions of the others right or appropriate either. I still stand by what I said, they were both at fault so they both should have been expelled. ok Im done, I know i have a bad habit of being long winded haha.

[rachfan4life]

Hey Sparklet,

Please don't take this as an attack. I just want to ask you a couple of questions. I agree it just wasn't Willie's fault for the altercation.

You say, "Joe puts up his dukes! Now joe is a grown man he should no better! That is a sign he wanted to fight! If you put up your dukes in my world u better be prepared to use them!"

In your world when someone chases you into a room and is screaming at you, what do you do? Just sit there and take it?

Isn't Willie a grown man? Shouldn't he know better than to head butt someone?

While I agree the whole house was after him, Willie started that all by himself. When Willie himself mentions that he's going to do something that will get him kicked out, how is that not thug mentality?

I wish Willie didn't do this because he is Live Feed Gold watching him.

Loyalty is one thing, blind loyalty is another. A perfect example is Penn State. I'm not equating the circumstances of what Willie did and what Sandusky did, just pointing out the both sides stayed loyal to the person.

That is prob the worst example to even be considered. Those kids were 100 percent innocent victims of a disgusting crime...There is also a difference in blood family loyalty and being loyal for selfish self serving reasons. Not to mention the fact that Willie was not 100% at fault here as that sick SOB was. Terrible comparison...

[FeloniousMonk]

Actually WIllie didnt call joe the c word..He made a blanket statement saying bunch of C's in this house (not sure if that the EXACT wording however he didnt specifically call Joe that word)...Wille did go running after Joe, however he stopped a good 2 feet infront of Joe, Joe continued to keep his fist up and in a fighting stance. That is when Willie said hit me blah blah. Then if you watch it was not Willie who backed Joe up proceeding with a chest bump, it was JOE who made that chest bump. and that is when he got a head but to the head. With all that said I dont condone Willies behavior nor do I feel he shouldnt have been expelled from the game. However Joe is just as much at fault in the situation as Willie was. He sought out to have a confrontation with WIllie. (You can see his premeditation by his actions in the HOH just before their fight when he is jumping around like a 5yr old getting all excited about Willie being "about to blow" He made the choice just as much as WIllie did to go down stairs and get involved. Most adults with any amount of common sense and integrity would have given Willie time to cool off and just leave him alone. However Joe chose the dirty low road (yet again)...Ive watch the fight portion of the show several times and it is clear to me they were both to blame in equal parts and that when you get down to it, words are just words, until you touch someone in a threatening way. Which I clearly see Joe doing first. My opinion would be completely different had Willie not stopped 2 feet away from Joe allowing Joe time to pause and think about what he was doing. He CHOSE to continue the physical threatening. IMO Willie had every right to defend himself. The actions of all of these so called adults is appauling to me. It reminds me of the mob mentality in which Jr high school kids would use. Its one thing to ":play the game" and another to just forget basic human kindness and treat another human being in such a disgusting embarrasing way. It wasnt enough for Joe to completely defame Willie and ruin his game with his made up BC he had to continue to rub salt in the wounds and rub it in Willies face every chance he got along with the other HGs..In my world this just isnt how you treat people. Game or no game.

As is true in all of life, people see the same event differently...

First, I think Joe is a dirtbag and I would be happy to see him go... BUT...

As I saw & heard it, Willie was sitting at the dining table calling the HGs the C-word and more... When Joe walked by, heading to the head, Willie called Joe the C-word... Joe responded in kind..

Willie did charge Joe in a very aggressive style... Joe responded by taking a defensive posture... Joe was the initiator of none of this... Willie was...

The way I saw it, once in the head, it was Willie that moved in on Joe and not the other way around... Joe was cornered and has a right to stand his ground, protect himself, and not be bullied by a screaming & obviously out of control Willie... It's his house too...

Joe, in response to Willie's charge, chest bumping, & headbutting, behaved like an adult and did not escalate the altercation... He was cornered and he did nothing but protect himself... I still don't like Joe, but he behaved like any rational person would...

He did not start this.. Willie did... He did not charge at anybody... Willie did...

Cornered in the head by Willie, Joe did nothing more than stand his ground & take a defensive stance... Had Joe thrown a punch, he would have been wrong... But Joe did NOT throw a punch... The only one to be physically violent was Willie when he chest-bumped and headbutted Joe...

It's hard to understand your "Willie had every right to defend himself" statement.. So, I can't respond to it...

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree...

Monk