TripTrey

Cody and Victoria are two peas in a Derrick pod.

Both have attach to a ?dominant? male and both are non-entities in the game. Their sole value is as a jury vote.

Lame.  I could care less really and we already know Donny won't do anything interesting anyway.

I agree that AP is lame, but would add that Derrick, Frankie also didn't do anything interesting like targeting Cody or Christine.

I dont disagree with you, but I think that if the "male alliances" (et al) didnt have Derrick directing them away from Donny (so that Derrick could continue to do AT challengers and bank off of them) then he would have been gone long ago.  The fact that he secretly, and through none of his own real doing, is valuable to Derrick--is what is keeping him in this game. 

I don't agree that Donny is there at the pleasure of Derrick. Donny has been on the block several times only to wriggle out of their grasp.

In my opinion, Derrick has a lot less control than either he or his fans believe he has. He has surfed the wave supported by a 'keep the numbers' tactic pushed and pushed and pushed by Caleb. It's an old and obvious tactic, but it's also true that it is a tactic most heavily pushed by Caleb not Derrick. Why Derrick gets credit for keeping the BS/Det together is curious.

Derrick is riding that wave along with Frankie, Zach, Cody as much as they are riding it with him. He's definitely getting the mastermind edit and Donny is definitely getting the nice guy edit, but Derrick is a mastermind among shrimps and the fact that Donny is a truly nice guy is only really important in the real world.

I'm sure I would have melted down about 15 times by now if I continued to be put on the block and felt so expendable--as though I myself wasnt there to play a game, but was merely a statue in the others chess game.  Go here, stand there, sit there. . .and we will decide if you get to stay or if you go.  I would have been all over the place crying, screaming, losing my mind and then trying to get it together.  So when I see him only letting a few tears slip here and there and opportune times. . .I feel like. .damn, this cat has control over himself. 

I don't think Donny views himself in a victim role in this game or in life in general~does he get lonely, yes, they all do. Does he fell shunned after his friends left, yes, we all would. But in terms of game issues he has never shown us anything but a player patiently/firmly standing his ground and working his game. They have not made him do a single thing that he didn't want to do and the fact that this is so obvious is actually a flaw in his game.

So, I don't agree with those fans that believe that he has been a chess piece or has ever submitted to the BS/Det wishes or demands. As far as I can tell, he's the only one in the house who has ever actually stood up to Derrick when he refused the AP task.

The game is not quite over for him or us. It doesn't look good, but he has shown the ability to come through in the clutch in the past. Who knows, maybe he's a goner, or maybe he'll survive another week. He's definitely the Det's worst nightmare; they can't control him and none of them is as well liked as his is by the current three member jury.

I seriously doubt that it's likely, but if he were to miraculously survive to the F2, having those three votes in his pocket is big. If he's up against Cody, Zach, Christine, Caleb, Vic or Frankie and he's got a very good chance of winning this thing--and there we have the best argument for getting rid of him. He's an obvious danger to their chances.

Vic made my night when she answered Julies ?? without bring up Frankie's bs reveal about his sister.  The other factor that got me was the ass kissing Nichole got in her goodbye messages and as she walked out the door....with the jury starting the messages get so sweet...it's sickening!!

The individual endgame has definitely begun.

 I say it mostly in jest, but essentially because he never shows anger.  Most serial killers were patient, calculating and subtly manipulative.  Lets just call it "giving him credit" for being more than the nice guy who keeps getting runover by the BS.

They haven't run him over yet... maybe this week they'll get him.

Caleb said the words. Caleb has been saying that from the day the BS started. It was when Derrick decided to stick with the original group that he got them all back together and is still doing that.

Or to put it more clearly, Derrick, Cody, Frankie and Christine were more than ready to cut Zach loose until Caleb convinced the Det that Zach must stay in order to stay safe themselves. Even Derrick admitted that.

Yes, I agree that throughout the game Caleb has kept the focus on maintaining the superior numbers. So, if anyone has helped the BS and even the Det maintain control it would be the rightfully unpopular Caleb.

If the position was switched and Donny would have been drafted into the BS, he would be in a better position, but I don't think he would be controlling what the BS did. If Derrick would have been an outsider, he would probably cry and b!tch more, but I think he would work harder to improve his position in the game. For example, if the position were switched, Victoria would still be on Derrick's side and she would just be waiting for Derrick to get in a position where both of them could do something. She would not be Donny's puppy. The reason I say that is because Derrick recognized that Vic needed attention and he set out to cultivate a relationship with her and I don't think Donny would have put in the work. Chances are, Derrick would still be in the jury by the f5 because he gets over confident and make mistakes, but I think he would have tried to improve his position. I think he would recognize that you can't go to bed at ten when you are on the bottom. If business and deals get made at 4am, you have to be there and be on your game.

 

With that being said, I hope something happens this week that will help improve Donny's position. I do not want any of the BS/detonators to win the game. There's still a lot of game to play and I hope Donny gets a break and then redeems himself and snatches a win out of the jaws of defeat. 

Again, our crystal balls are are showing us different pictures of the possibilities. I think Donny would have been central to the BS game and that his calming influence would have minimized the paranoia that creates the need to stay up into the wee hours. Deals, decisions and moves would have been made in the HOH during daylight hours like was done during the early seasons, there would be no game need to stay up all night.

Derrick's scrambling game is pretty weak and in my humble opinion he would have had trouble getting to the jury. He would have left either right before or right after Brit. Those like Derrick, who hurry their speech, who repeat over an over again how honest they are, and who interrupt constantly are usually targeted pretty early on just as Devin was. Showing signs of extreme stress as Derrick has on those few time when he was pushed is deadly in this game. The BB sharks generally respond by circling closer and closer and then CHOMP, it's over. 

Vic is a non-issue in the image in my crystal ball, much like she is now. Hayden might have adopted her and she would have been just fine with that. Actually, she'd be better off as Derrick's behavior towards Vic have crossed the line at times into tiptoeing into the abusive. Hayden has never shown us the inner demons that Derrick has shown us. Of course, it's completely possible that she would have gravitated to Derrick but she seeks a dominate male and in this scenario his dominance would most definitely be diminished.

I actually don't care very much about whether Donny finds his way past this week or not; I like him as a human being but he is really just an ever so slightly above average BBplayer. I guess I've begun to resign myself to a BS/Det win. Hope springs eternal for next years game. And I hope BB abandons the duel HOH nonsense, and also does a better job of picking a mix of strategic/physical/old/young/funny/serious/etc players.

But as many times as the Detonators almost detonated it was always Derrick that did the work to get them back together to have the numbers. If not for Derrick there would be no safety for himself and them.

 

I don't think Donny ever could have kept a team together.

It wasn't Derrick that kept the Det from evicting Zach, it was Caleb.

In poker, sometimes you get dealt a straight but most times you get a pair or less. Derrick got dealt a straight and Donny got a pair of deuces. My contention is this, Derrick has tried to come up with a stronger straight, while Donny has accepted that he's stuck with the pair of deuces. I think he has accepted that he cannot win. Devin exposed the BS and when the outsiders had a chance to put up those people, just in case they were still working together, they hedged their bets and ended up allowing another weaker player to get voted out.

 

Now, anything could happen between now and the final 3, but I really don't think Donny has put himself in a position to take advantage of changes in the game. I really can't say he has played as well as Derrick. I agree that Derrick is really not that good, however, Derrick is clearly in control of his alliance. He really is not on anybodies radar. Derrick is playing for $500,000 and Donny is just playing along.  

I'd be interested to see the game played with the hands each is dealt switched.

In that scenario, we may have come to see Donny as the Mastermind of the BS given his observation skills and analytical skills. And from the little we've seen of Derrick under stress, it's apparent that Derrick's scrambling game is less than good. How would we come to look on him in that situation.

I do agree with you, neither is an exceptional player. Switch the cards and the truly good BB players still win.. think Dr Will with either hand dealt.

To be sure, Donny's game is a more subtle game than the constantly manic scrambling paranoia driven game that most play. One benefit of that bipolar style of game is that it is so much easier to understand for the fans than the more subtle low keyed game. The first is like downing a yard of ale in one swallow and the second is like sipping Merlot or in Donny's case, sipping Boones Farm Apple wine.

Joystiick makes some very good points.  I might have to reassess my opinion of donny's game.  It would not bother me one bit to see derrick win.

Now, THAT gave me a good chuckle with my morning coffee.. Thx

JS and I aren't really all that different in our thinking... I give the tilt to Donny, JS gives it to Derrick, but we both acknowledge that neither is one of the better players when stacked up against players from past seasons.

I haven't been able to find a favorite this season. I'd be happy with Donny going home soon, just as I would be happy with the rest of them heading out this week.

Sorry Janis, I had to go somewhere. I don't think you ar trying to argue. This is just a discussion. Something we should have more of without people getting mad.

 

As far as who Donny should have approached, he should have approached all of them that are on the outside. He should have continually pointed out that they were not in the clique. Donny and the rest of the outsiders have been playing scared the whole game. As soon as they started thinking, if I try to form an alliance, I am going to be voted out, the BS work was done. When Donny won HOH, who did he nominate. He already knew who was running things. Instead, he went with the one strong and one weak player to try to avoid them coming after him if he was dethrone. He seemed to forget that they were already coming after him. He was just trying to make another week. Which I really don't mind if you have an actual strategy. Like I said, things change every week, but, if you don't do anything different from one week to the next, why would think anything was going to be any different from the week before.

 

So, Donny has made it this far. If the detonators blew up next week, Donny would still be playing to just get to the next week. He would just be a pawn dependent on the mercy of the other players. If somehow, he found a way to make it to the F2, what would his argument be to earn a vote. He hasn't cultivated any relationships other than Jacosta that he could count on for a vote. On game play, he probably loses pretty bad to everyone except Vic. I'm sorry, we will have to disagree because I just don't see where Donny has done anything of any significance in the game. But I still like him. He's a Carolina man.  

The duel HOH essentially forces each HOH to put up at least one weak player. Donny nominated Caleb and Victoria. Nicole was the other HOH and nominated Zach and Jacosta. Both put up a STRONG player with a weak player unlike some of the BS/Det HOH's that put up two weak players.  I'm curious, how are Donny's noms any different from Derrick's noms of Caleb and Jacosta. For me, Derrick's are worse in that the Caleb's nom was completely contrived. A complete sham of a nom.. Caleb was never in danger and he knew it. No courage on Derrick's part with his noms.

There was never really any choice to gather the outcasts into an alliance... by week four, three of the outcasts had been evicted. Remember, for them the game is still in it's early stages and they don't know what we know so the eviction pattern was still unclear to Nicole, Hayden, Victoria and Jacosta. Had the stronger outcasts Brit and Hayden not been picked off before they understood that Donny's assessment was spot on, there might have been a chance to create an alliance to battle the BS/Detonators, but this new alliance still would have been a minority alliance. It's not Donny's fault they didn't listen, it's theirs and they've paid for that mistake.

I would argue that Donny stacks up nicely against Derrick, who most seem to think is doing a good job of playing the game. Donny's won more than Derrick and won some of those contests when he was on the block, which is when it's hardest to do & when it counts the most. Donny won under stress, Derrick has not been tested on the block. The truth is that Derrick has never really been in jeopardy because he was lucky enough to be in a room standing next to an athlete(Cody) when the BS was formed. If he had been chatting with Brittany at the time he would have had to fight for his BB16 life like the rest of the outcasts have, but he tripped over a bit of luck and now he's a 'good' player. 

Derrick has never had to win a POV or die. Derrick has never had to go it alone yet still find a way to survive. Derrick has been safe; he has even had the luxury of knowing that if he was ever to be put on the block that his mega alliance members would protect him. It's far easier to be brilliant or even just good if you aren't ever under any real pressure.

Donny has never really freaked under pressure; Derrick has lost it those few times that he felt some small pressure... think back to when he talked to Brit after Devin spilled the beans on the BS. Derrick's word count went waaaayyy up, he repeated himself and repeated himself and repeated himself about how honest and straight forward he is, and he interrupted far more than he does when not under stress. All signs that the pressure got to him. Donny has remained cool about the game pressures. Both have felt homesick and have lost it in that way, but so have just about all of them.

It looks like we disagree, I think Derrick is a subpar player who is playing with the luxury of safety and Donny is a slightly better than average player, playing against the house. I've got to go now, but thanks for the discussion tonight.

I was just waiting for anyone who was mad at him to say "And this big reveal of your sisters name is your excuse for throwing me under the bus? Explain it to me one more time please, because I am missing it"

 

And I think I am just really tired of how insatiably fake this kid is.  Everyone pretty much called for his head and cheered to get him out and he comes back with that damn rainbow shooting out of his butt saying "I'm not mad guys, I still love you".  Its indescribably not-human. 

Spot on.

I really don't think Derrick is that good a player but he is by far the best player this year. He has made mistakes that I think would have gotten him in trouble in other seasons, but with these players, it is all good. 

Now, here's where we agree. Derrick looks good by comparison to this years players but put him in most prior years and he'd be out very early.

I am also not a fan of his treatment of Victoria in general, but specifically in the Beehive when he was going to 'get her to apologize.' That was beyond gameplay, that was abusive. He and Christine have mean streaks that go far deeper than run of the mill Big Brother deceit and manipulation.

Not trying to argue or anything, but you laid out a "woe is me" strategy of he should just sit back and wait to get voted out. If I am in the house, I may have been voted out 3 weeks ago because I would not have been sitting back waiting for them to decide when they picked me to go. I would go down fighting. You can't just go to people once or twice and think they will align with you, you have to go to them multiple times. Every week, something changes in the house. you have to get out there and start scheming and selling your strategy all over again. All those weak players may not be studs, but they are votes and they cannot all be on the block at the same time. You have to convince those weak votes that unless you all band together, they are done. Donny has been on the block for about half the game. He is not flying under any radar. He is a target. Instead of trying to keep his head down and begging then not to send him to jury, I think he should have been out there trying to rally the troops.  

 

Yeah, Dr. Will and Cody is good looking but just because Donny may be the ugly duckling, he has to use whatever gifts god gave him. If you ain't pretty, use your smarts or your ability to talk or promise people that you want put them up if they don't put you up.

 

I am watching Donny game and everyone else's and all of them with the exception of Frankie has decided that Derrick can have the money. 

Apparently we just disagree about what is a 'woe is me' strategy and what is not. I also don't agree that he just went to these folks 'once or twice.' Let's also remember that he has won his share of POV's and even an HOH so although he plays a quieter game, it's not a silent game.

• Blue who’s BB16 goal was to create the female version of the Brigade. No way she would have aligned with ‘duck dynasty’ ever, let alone the first week.
• Jacosta who’s goal was to play without lying or conniving and was powerfully resistant to talking game. No alliance forming possibilities there.
• Pao who goal was to get a tan, wiggle and giggle. Enough said.
• Brit who reasonably believed that she still had time to find a trusted partner and time enough to form an alliance. She thought she was in the process of forming one with Derrick and Cody until Devin's crazy crush blew her game up. She would possibly consider Donny at a later time.
• Hayden who also under the impression that large day 2 alliances are far too rare to take seriously believed that he was making inroads into Frankie and Cody’s game. So, he perceived no need to deal with Donny until it was too late.
• Nicole thought she had an alliance with Christine. Poor girl… No need to deal with Donny on a game level for her until it was too late.
• Victoria who was seeking the approval and acceptance from a dominate male. Donny doesn’t meet her dominate male requirements and so no Donny alliance here.

My choice will be Zach as he has entertained me more than any of the others. Donny next and then Hayden.

Yes good perspective

 

I would have rooted for Donny if he had tried. He wanted to go to bed early at night and get up in the morning and have his alone time as he calls it . He said he does not like talking. He has said he didn't want to go to people for an alliance that he wanted them to come to him. Just throwing out a few tidbits of observation every now and then is not playing the game. He is only 42. That is pretty young. He should have taken all those on the outside and tried to form and alliance and then drag more in. There is so much he could have done to get himself in the game but his game play is to just sit back and be the nice guy they won't evict.

I don't think Donny has ever recovered from the early negatives of the game. Right off the bat, he was part of the D&D alliance and ended up on the block. From the beginning the other players suspected him of hiding his true identity, I guess, because they couldn't believe that Grodner would put a plain old guy with a simple life on the show. So, he has never found a way to fully trust other players and they have not found a way to fully trust him. Ergo, he has been basically drifting along throughout the game, with no true direction and no strategy. He's play the TV version of BB and the BS/Detonators (Derrick/Frankie) played the real BB.