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Locke and the Immaculate Conception


CFDaddy
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Ok, this has been bugging me for a week now since Locke's mom said he's the result of an Immaculate Conception. I thought that it sounded a little wrong but could not place my finger on it until yesterday. And since no one has mentioned it on here I guess I must bring it up :) .

Lockes mom was basically saying that he had no father and I'm guessing that the writers like so many others believed that the Immaculate Conception was the Birth of Jesus Christ. That is however not true.

The Immaculate Conception is of the Virgin Mary's birth. It is the idea that Mary was born completely free of sin to bear the Son of God.

I don't want to get into a big spritual debate or anything on here, but I just found it interesting that the term Immacualte Conception is so widely thought of as the birth of Jesus (refered to as the Virgin Birth) that even the writers of Lost and their researchers for that matter missed it.

Heres a link for those of you who wanna read more about Immacualte Conception.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_Conception

CFDaddy

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Guest GaYToR

I don't care to get into a great theological debate here, either. This Bulletin Board is about TV, not religious beliefs or anyone's lack of, but since it was posted I felt the need to share my own findings on the subject.

Obviously any two people can read the same thing and get different meanings from what is read. I took my research a bith further and found a website to support my own belief that Christ was born of Immaculate Conception, thru the Holy Ghost. I guess it boils down to personal faith and what we care to question.

I don't see the connection to this TV show, LOST.

http://www.catholicplanet.com/virgin/

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Guest XandraSkye
I guess the only connection is that Locke's biological mother told him that he was an Immaculate Conception. Which, of course, turned out to be a scam. She said that with the intention of piqueing his curiousity about his biological father so he would search him out and than that jerk could use him and get his kidney.
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Guest Anonymous

Part of the statement "you were concieved immaculantly" was to demonstrate her craziness too I think. That sort of gave backing to the weirdness of Locke.

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Guest ranster627

It all shows why Locke "believes" he is chosen ... a "god complex" seems to be rearing it's head!

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Well, in response to "I don't see the connection to this TV show, LOST.", last week's episode was filled with religious symbolism. So let's review for those that may have missed it:

1. First we have Locke's mom claiming that he was the product of Immaculate Conception.

2. Then you have Locke's dad making the joke that he must be god.

3. Then there was the priest who apparently wasn't really a priest, but heroine smuggler.

4. Then there were the Virgin Mary statues that were used to transport the drugs.

Obviously this episode was Religous-centric on a number of levels and it could even be argued that there was plenty of other religious symbolism like in the way Locke was at first praying while looking up to the heavens but later knelt down only to get a "Light" from below instead of above.

So, as stated in the first post, this was about the writers and researchers of Lost and their choice of words. Even the link that was posted by Gaytor (http://www.catholicplanet.com/virgin/) if read thoughoughly explains the exact same thing that the orignal post states.

Hopefully this will clear up the question of the "Connection" to Lost.

Glad to be of service,

CFDaddy

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Guest Anonymous

Well there is the issue of his ability to walk. In a wheelchair before the crash, able to walk and suddenly the "Hunter", the ability to walk is then taken away long enough for Boone to be sent to his death and then Voila -- its back again?

I'd say Locke has a few problems in the old reality sector.

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Guest ranster627

I agree with all of that ... and I remind people that the writers use The Stand for some inspiration ... arguably The Stand is one big religious treatise.

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Guest ranster627
Well there is the issue of his ability to walk.  In a wheelchair before the crash, able to walk and suddenly the "Hunter", the ability to walk is then taken away long enough for Boone to be sent to his death and then Voila -- its back again? 

I'd say Locke has a few problems in the old reality sector.

Unless his disability is one of the mind ... "hysterical paralysis" ... interesting thought ...

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Guest Anonymous

Well we've still yet to find out what put him in that wheelchair in the first place. We saw him walking and hunting with his father -- and the driving after the operation -- full use of his legs there. We've saw him working in his nice little grey cubicle -- in a wheelchair. There's a lot going on in between point A and point B.

On the island, he becomes obsessed with this hatch -- believing "the island will tell him how to open it" He convinces a very eager yet quite malable Boone to come with him to follow a concept he's dreamed about. Suddenly he can't walk. Huh. Something about this guy....

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Guest conniejoe
Well, in response to "I don't see the connection to this TV show, LOST.", last week's episode was filled with religious symbolism.  So let's review for those that may have missed it:

1. First we have Locke's mom claiming that he was the product of Immaculate Conception.

2. Then you have Locke's dad making the joke that he must be god.

3. Then there was the priest who apparently wasn't really a priest, but heroine smuggler.

4. Then there were the Virgin Mary statues that were used to transport the drugs.

Obviously this episode was Religous-centric on a number of levels and it could even be argued that there was plenty of other religious symbolism like in the way Locke was at first praying while looking up to the heavens but later knelt down only to get a "Light" from below instead of above.

Great list, Daddy!!! I was also getting the religious tilt regarding Locke. All of these examples allude to something/someone who appears to be good/holy but in reality is bad/evil.

It brings me back to my original caution regarding Locke. I think he's really a bad guy, who just seems to be good.

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Guest Anonymous

The really weird thing to me was that Locke's dream seems like it was more a premonition -- he saw the plane, Boone with a bloody head, and this "woman" pointing. Then we saw them find the plane, Boone dies, and the woman? (I still think that it was his mother but -- anyone have any stills of that scene by any chance?)

So if Locke is nuts like I'm beginning to wonder, where did this premonition come from?

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Guest ranster627
Spooky, I read somewhere that he jumps off a bridge after finding out what his Dad did to him.  I don't know if it is true or not. 

UPDATE:

Here's the link -  http://losttheshow.info/index.php?option=c...id=94&Itemid=51

Not sure if this is just this writers opinion or where he is getting his info from though.

CFDaddy

Seems to be speculation by the writer ... doesn't mention sources or spoilers ... thanks though, it is always interesting to read what people are thinking ...

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Guest Anonymous

Thanks to both Daddy and Ranster. Ranster knew I wouldn't look at the site if I might accidentally read spoilers -- I avoid them with all my might. With Ransters okay -- I headed over too -- I'm going to be reading a lot more of the site.

Interesting note -- why doesn't the glass break? Well the glass on windows of ships designed to go into space have super re-inforced plastic/glass/steel mixtures as I recall -- breaking them would be very hard to do indeed.

Also ... and its just a thought -- ever try to break the glass on the front of an oven?

So whatever that thing is -- bombshelter (odd place to find one in the middle of a uninhabited island), time machine (thinking of references to a Steven King novel I once read and the reference to "Wrinkle in Time", a space ship (alien at that) or simply a head quarters for whoever runs the island (Island of Dr. Moreau thoughts here) -- whatever it is I'd say that isn't really just glass.

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Guest GaYToR

I still stand by my original statement and missed point in the 2nd post of this thread.

Maybe I wasn't clear. Yes there have been religious connections made clearly in this show. Everyone can see that. But questioning the show and a religious debate over a person's personal belief that the birth of Christ was of Immaculate Conception had and has no place in this thread.

Theologians much more educated in the matter than any of us have argued the fact for centuries and will for centuries to come. I stand by what I read that my reseach supports my belief that Christ was born of the Virgin Mary, and she was indeed a virgin and without sin, chosen by God to bring his Son into this world by the miracle of an Immaculate Conception. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are one. Joseph was not the father of Jesus.

I will now go back to questioning my every post, and reading for the rest of the day. Amen.

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Guest Anonymous

Actually, and I'm just speculating here......

I have the feeling that we shouldn't investigate any of the clues too much but take them at face value and evaluate them as a whole.

As an example, I read Wrinkle in Time last week -- and I really don't think the contents of the book are the clue. I am, after reading it, that the title is the clue -- exactly as we saw it. "Wrinkle in Time"

Looking at it simply we have the clues

-- wrinkle in time

-- imaculate conception

-- light in the hatch

-- locke's dream of an airplane, Boone's accident, and a woman

-- the numbers

-- the toy airplane

Add to the list please! But then perhaps we should look at how these things link?

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Guest ranster627
I still stand by my original statement and missed point in the 2nd post of this thread.

Maybe I wasn't clear. Yes there have been religious connections made clearly in this show. Everyone can see that. But questioning the show and a religious debate over a person's personal belief that the birth of Christ was of Immaculate Conception had and has no place in this thread.

Theologians much more educated in the matter than any of us have argued the fact for centuries and will for centuries to come. I stand by what I read that my reseach supports my belief that Christ was born of the Virgin Mary, and she was indeed a virgin and without sin, chosen by God to bring his Son into this world by the miracle of an Immaculate Conception. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are one. Joseph was not the father of Jesus.

I will now go back to questioning my every post, and reading for the rest of the day. Amen.

It is that very distinction, if memory serves me right that caused the schism between the Catholic and Anglican church ...

In other words :wink: both interpretations are correct ... and frankly, I love seeing all the sides ...

Thanks GaYToR!

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GaYToR,

I am not, nor ever did I, nor will I ever, question anyones personal beliefs. As with all my posts I try to state facts, not opinions (unless the post is in jest). I am not speaking of "Beleifs" at all here. The item in question is the term "Immacualte Conception". Look it up! To help out, here are some Encyclopedia entries:

Encarta (http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/refpages/search.aspx?q=Immaculate+Conception&Submit2=Go)

Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_Conception)

Britannica (http://www.britannica.com/search?query=Immaculate+Conception&go_button.x=0&go_button.y=0&ct=)

Encyclopedia.com (http://www.encyclopedia.com/searchpool.asp?target=Immaculate+Conception&Search.x=0&Search.y=0)

The Catholic Encyclopedia (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07674d.htm)

Every encyclopedia has the same definition. So, what I'm getting at here, just as was stated in the first post, is that the general misconception among most people is that the Immaculate Conception refers to Christ, just like Lockes mother said. Which was the point of this thread. The writers got it wrong.

I do not come to this board to debate people, but rather to enjoy the information provided and to help provide other useful information for the rest of the community. It is unfortuate that there are others that do not use this forum for the purpose of expressing there thoughts and ideas regarding the topics at hand, but rather use the board for there own personal issues. I beleive that I have been very factual and thorough in my research of all of my posts. To this end I have spent the better part of an hour trying (and hoping) to find something to prove the statements I've made incorrect in hopes of not having to write this particular post, but rather an appolgy to you for me being bull headed. I have however not been able to find anything to the contrary.

CFDaddy

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Guest ranster627
GaYToR,

  I am not, nor ever did I, nor will I ever, question anyones personal beliefs.  As with all my posts I try to state facts, not opinions (unless the post is in jest).  I am not speaking of "Beleifs" at all here.  The item in question is the term "Immacualte Conception".  Look it up!  To help out, here are some Encyclopedia entries:

Encarta (http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/refpages/search.aspx?q=Immaculate+Conception&Submit2=Go)

Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_Conception)

Britannica (http://www.britannica.com/search?query=Immaculate+Conception&go_button.x=0&go_button.y=0&ct=)

Encyclopedia.com (http://www.encyclopedia.com/searchpool.asp?target=Immaculate+Conception&Search.x=0&Search.y=0)

The Catholic Encyclopedia (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07674d.htm)

  Every encyclopedia has the same definition.  So, what I'm getting at here, just as was stated in the first post, is that the general misconception among most people is that the Immaculate Conception refers to Christ, just like Lockes mother said.  Which was the point of this thread.  The writers got it wrong.

  I do not come to this board to debate people, but rather to enjoy the information provided and to help provide other useful information for the rest of the community.  It is unfortuate that there are others that do not use this forum for the purpose of expressing there thoughts and ideas regarding the topics at hand, but rather use the board for there own personal issues.  I beleive that I have been very factual and thorough in my research of all of my posts.  To this end I have spent the better part of an hour trying (and hoping) to find something to prove the statements I've made incorrect in hopes of not having to write this particular post, but rather an appolgy to you for me being bull headed.  I have however not been able to find anything to the contrary. 

CFDaddy

Wow ... great list of resources .. I am a little wary entering into this one, but LOST is the forum of peace and harmony ... where we explore all sides so I will ...

I think interpretation here comes down to fundamental beliefs ... we can all find materials to support our beliefs ...

I, for one, have been educated and enjoyed exploring all sides ... in this case, it is not the definition that seems to be the point ... IMHO ... it occurs to me that the writers threw in this plot device to further Locke's strong basis for feeling he is destined to be on the island ...

I think this thread should focus on the implications of Locke's strong belief systems and where that would ultimately lead him ...

I have thought often that he is grooming followers for a tribe (in a cult-like) fashion ... his svengali (manipulative) approach makes me cringe ...

Locke's character has the scary quality of smiling and fuming with anger all at the same time!

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I was thinking that maybe the writers are even more clever than I'm giving them credit and they used the term specifically for some other purpose that we've yet to derive. None the less, it has made for quite the interesting topic and I've learned alot from researching it.

Ranster, I still however do not understand where anyones personal beleifs have anything to do with this topic. Maybe I'm seeing this the wrong way, but let's leave religion out of it for a second. Pick up a dictionary and select a word, any word. Now read that definition. Go find another dictionary and the word will mean that same thing. That is my point here. I am just looking for something that tells me where all of the definitions I have ever heard or can find in writing are any different from each other. I don't think this is even an interpretaion issue. You did have a good thought about the Catholic and Anglican church so I'm off to do more reading.

CFDaddy

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Guest ranster627

There are sects (divisions) of the Catholic Church who believe that the Virgin Mary had to also have been divinely conceived ...

That belief is arguably wrong or right, but they have extended their belief system to include this postulation ... thereby extending "their" definition ...

This is what I was referring to in my beliefs statement.

I did not intend to offend ... I just happen to know someone firsthand who espouses that belief ...

As for me, I just drink in all faiths, and all interpretations, and the facts too ... I find humanity fascinating how so many people can see things so differently ...

Hope this clarifies what I meant.

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Guest ranster627
Thanks ranster, that makes sense.  I appreciate the level head and direct answer.

Take it easy,

CFDaddy

:wink: any time, glad I could help!

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