FeloniousMonk

Well, pigs have been sighted flying over our towns and cities. I agree wicked... Gulp...

Monk

I really wish there was a "Like" button. One of my biggest pet peeves is people who try to make the opinions of others seem invalid because they do not agree with them. And trying to make yourself seem smarter by using flowery language does not add any creedence at all to an argument. In fact, it just makes you seem desperate.

Flowery language... now that is amusing... It's called a vocabulary where I come from. It's one of those old-timey things that folks used to value.

But here's one just for you Gorilla:::: Yo dude, Bitch'en post!!!

Monk

Well she put up Andy! Yippee! Someone from 3am will be gone. I would call this a successful HOH.

I'm with you... Elissa is the very first HOH that has had the backbone to put a dent in Amanda's crew. For that & for the grace she has shown while Amanda makes a fool of herself, I'm gonna vote for her to be America's player.

Monk

~ whew ~

Now that's the 2nd chuckle you've given me today... It's good to see you developing a sense of humor.

Monk

No one's places them on an equal playing field. What's been stated is the fact that Elissa isn't the pure little sweet pea some feel she is. For some strange reason there are those who hear trumpets and see butterflies swirling when she enters the room. Not sure what those people are smoking but they should share. Ahem....

Personally I find leaving nasty items on someone's counter childish but it gets an EW and swept off into a trash bin.

Making comments about a persons body, clothes or any number of personal attributes is far more damaging long-term. Elissa has made a slew of them about the other HG's just as they have about her and each other. Is she as loud? No. As guilty? You bet your arse.

I personally haven't seen the comments on this board that would suggest that folks here have heard the trumpets or seen the butterflies swirling when she enters the room, but then it's no real surprise... the one immutable truth is that over all these years the one thing we can both count upon is the knowledge that you & I have very different value systems.

Monk

No. I've heard Elissa tell Helen and Amanda many times she didn't care if he left because he didn't talk game with her; that he was Candice's friend and not hers. She added continuously that Candice's relationship with him made no sense to her, and agreed with Helen, that he needed to leave so Candi would be stronger. Thinking doesn't get more foolish in a game like this than that. If Candice was her friend, than Howard should have been a plus in her mind. His later comp wins would have been she and Candice's as well. Instead she ran with Helen and Amanda who badly influenced her to believe Howard was this big, strong guy who would mow them down in later comps and wipe them out. Howard prayed with her daily, and talked with her about scripture. He encouraged her to stand strong on days when she was missing her family, and feeling defeated by Aaryn and the other "cool kids". How she could look at him and not see a friend is beyond my reasoning....

There is always a choice when you feel people are ganging up on you, and forcing you to do things you really don't want to do. Instead of passively going along with Helen and Amanda, she should have assertively aligned with Howard, Candice, Spence and Jessie...Who was looking for a solid alliance at that time. She was being picked on by the "Cool kids", and would have gladly joined Elissa. That would have been a 5 person alliance, and Elissa would be in a totally different position now.

Nothing about her attempt to evict Amanda is "sound" because she did not make smart noms. She also underestimated Amanda's ability to save herself. And finally, she has not weakened Amanda's alliance because they still have the numbers when Aaryn leaves.

Apparently you did miss the discussions Elissa had with Howard and Candice. You also appear to have missed the pushback she gave Amanda and Helen on those evictions.

As far as, Howards comp wins, well, I didn't see much from him that would suggest that they would be coming. He tried yoga with Elissa and he just couldn't handle the strain for very long. He failed at every comp... even the ones that were obviously life or death for him... Musclebound doesn't equate to Comp wins... we've all seen that bit of truth over the seasons.

Elissa went to Howard after the bed flipping incident and encouraged him to stay strong and to be strong on those days when he felt alone in the house.

Who was praying with whom... was Howard praying with Elissa or was Elissa praying with Howard or more likely were they just praying together.

Coming off those first few weeks didn't leave Elissa much power to 'flip' the house and create another super alliance. She wasn't passive in the sense that you mean, she was quietly working Helen and Amanda but her efforts fell on deaf ears as Amanda was certain that Howard was a powerhouse and after her while Helen was a paranoid mess obsessed with her own press.

Howard had no chance against Amanda when he lost Helen partly as a result of isolating himself after the mean girls tirade. He should never have isolated himself... then to make matters worse, Candice isolated herself from those who were ready, willing and able to support her... Bad move Howard... Bad move Candice...

Any super alliance with Spencer, Judd, Howard, Candice died when Howard and Candice chose to separate themselves from Helen and Elissa. Spencer could never be counted upon in an alliance with any woman and Judd is just one guy... So, this 5 HG alliance is down to Elissa and Judd, who was voted out soon thereafter. Not much of a path to success there, wouldn't you agree?

I have posted before that I thought she should have nominated both Amanda and McCrea and left Aaryn for someone else to handle, but it is not a poor choice to nom McCrea and Aaryn as the are both 3am members and form the muscle behind Amanda and both are in duos. If Amanda loses either one she loses strength. A reasonably good choice but still the better choice would have been to nom McManda.

And to your point about underestimating Amanda's ability to save herself, remember, they all have the ability to save themselves to some extent... Amanda just hadn't shown much ability to win in the past... As is true for all things BB, it is/was a calculated risk. And although Elissa may not have success in breaking up either duo(McManda/GM-Aaryn) she wasn't a puppet and she stuck to her guns. For that and more she may have just assured herself of at least $25k.

Monk

Lol Yes, she did come armed with quite a few digs of her own. I agree with you. Her overall behavior thus far, does not place her in the "classy lady" category, and her claims of victimization fall on deaf ears as far as I'm concerned.

Yes, I see your point now...

Elissa remarked about Amanda's bathing suit and Amanda remarked about slitting Elissa's throat & handing her over to be gang raped... Elissa thought that putting McCrea on the block was just a part of the game and Amanda thought leaving Elissa a tweaked napkin and condom was all in good fun.

Now I get it... Elissa is just as trashy as Amanda... How silly of me. Do you think they might be twins?

Monk

Who is attempting in any way to equate Elissa's and Amanda's behavior ? Hmm ? My post doesn't mention either . I happen to like them both and would be happy if either of them win in the end.

Oh and let us state the obvious, because obviously one sin doesn't equal another and of course there are different degrees to a sin. ~rolls eyes dramatically.

You are aware of the logical implications of & logical conclusions drawn from your posts, aren't you?

It wasn't I that posted a simplistic little rant about 'sinners' hypocritical behaviors... that was you my BB friend... And actually you did make that equivalence... you may not have understood that you made it, but you did make it.

Together your two assertions: 'cannot seem to help themselves by appointing their view, opinion etc to be the moral an just position.' & 'I am sure all of us have the good mixed with the dark .After all is said and done, we are all human.' definitely makes that simplistic equivalency, which is exactly what I was saying to you. Sometimes, stating the obvious is exactly where the discussion needs to begin.

Monk

Exactly !

I am a sinner and I know it .

It is funny how a lot of people on this site hate when the houseguests proclaim their side to be the "good people" yet cannot seem to help themselves by appointing their view, opinion etc to be the moral an just position. Ugh! Anyways I do LOVE reading all sides and views and I am sure all of us have the good mixed with the dark .After all is said and done, we are all human.

Isn't that an overly simplistic take on human behavior?

All people have weaknesses and frailties; that's not the argument being made. The spectrum of poor behavior is broad and deep and the natural curve models these human behaviors well. Few are very good, most are reasonably good, and a few are truly bad. In other words, many are capable of littering at some point in their life but few are actually capable of cold-blooded murder. Equating Elissa's behavior with Amanda's behavior is an exercise in lunacy.

Again, to attempt to draw an equivalence between those few who commit greater misdeeds and those who commit lesser misdeeds is folly. Unfortunately, your argument suggests just such an equivalence exists. Ignoring those differences in poor behavior and drawing a picture that suggests that we are all 'sinners' and thereby the same also goes a long way to giving those who hold that such an equivalence exists, a pathway to discounting their own missteps. Accountability suffers and then so do we all.

Monk

Amanda simply isn't that weak, and Elissa shouldn't have been foolish enough to think she is. Perhaps not to many, but to me it only made her appear totally immature. As a "mom" I would think she'd want her son to see her taking a loss gracefully. She lost the week, and should move on, and try to figure out how to stay in the game next week when she'll be incredibly vulnerable. Because whereas that girl was going to protect her, she won't now.

You may have missed it on the feeds but Amanda told McCrea that after Helen's eviction, Elissa is her next target. She said this just before Helen's eviction. She never intended to "protect" Elissa.

Monk

Not thrilled with her this week, but then again I haven't been since she threw her "friend" Candice under the bus to the other side. She won too late. Too late. All of the people who would have protected her, she helped evict (with the exception of Helen, who unlike Candice and Howard got her vote). There's something to be said about karma, and it's now coming back to bite her. She won this HoH, but in the long run, where is it going to take her but to jury? Since Spence, Mc and Amanda are the power votes this week, Aaryn will probably leave, but Amanda was her target. On top of that she has alienated Amanda to the point of no return, when Amanda wanted to work with her after Helen left. Moves don't get more insane than that guys.

Elissa argued against voting out Howard. She didn't have the votes to save Candice. Both of these votes were championed by Amanda and to a somewhat lesser extent, Helen.

What has been logically insane is that until Elissa's HOH, no HOH took the opportunity to break up the terrible two. The strategy to weaken Amanda by either to evicting her or evicting her supporter Aaryn(another pair: Aaryn & GM) is sound. Allowing a pair to get this far unharmed IS truly insane gameplay.

Monk

I am sure someone told her that Elissa's plan was to backdoor Amanda. It didn't work because Amanda miraculously wins the Veto comp. Now Amanda is back to her cocky, bullying attitude and Elissa is the target. Elissa handled it a lot better than I would have!

Amen to that.

Can you imagine the crying and screaming tantrums that would ensue is someone bullied Amanda in the same manner as she is trying to bully Elissa. Can we say "mental breakdown?"

On the other hand, Elissa has handled Amanda's bullying with grace.

Monk

IMO Elissa put McCrae up on the block because she's scared sh!tless of Amanda.

If Amanda were up there I'm 99% certain he wouldn't win a veto and 100% certain he wouldn't have used it on her had he the chance.

I don't pretend to be a psychic OR a detective so I won't bother with who digs through who's crap. And I don't care anyways.

Elissa has started her share of fights and certainly hasn't worn the halo a few fans slapped upon her extensions... er, head.

It's a bit of an inside joke, so I don't expect that you will understand this post of mine, but your post gave me good chuckle, and for that, I thank you.

Monk

I have not seen him move any of her belongings, and I watch the feeds quite a bit. I can't imagine him doing that and putting his things with hers or dumping her things out to use that space. Elissa is not the kind of person who would put up with that once let alone multiple times.

GM said she took one of the the baseballs from the hallway, so it somehow fell out of wherever Elissa had it stored. Regardless, if she did not see Mc do it, as stated before, she should have not attacked him. Especially in front of other house guests when she could have easily pulled him aside and questioned him. I just think that when a person complains about having to live with obnoxious people, he/she should not be equally obnoxious.

The incident with the napkin and condom happened after Elissa's attack on them. It was wrong for Amanda to do that, but certainly understandable. At least she didn't take Willie Hantz's form of retaliation.

If you are questioning whether Amanda has it in her to take, hide, or remove someone's belongings, she has done it before as I outlined in my earlier post. McCrea has definitely shown his contempt for personal boundaries... He has trespassed upon nearly every HOH and HG's bed. Is it really a leap too far to think that he would put his filthy clothes into another HG's clothes drawers? I'd say that it's not much of a stretch.

As far as Elissa being the kind of person "who would put up with that," well, your right and she obviously did not put up with that as is displayed by her request to McCrea to steer clear of her belongings.

The baseball obviously did not fall out, crawl out, or walk away from Elissa's control... She did see Amanda going threw her things... So, all indications point to the terrible two as the culprits... and that is exactly what Elissa acted upon... They've done it before, they've repeatedly trespassed, Elissa saw Amanda going threw her belongings... They have constructed a history of acting out in bullying ways(again Nicks stuff, Napkin, Condom, screaming fights with several HG's, trespassing, threatening comments, gay slurs, racist comments, etc...) So, I have a hard time understanding your defense of their behavior.

Elissa did not attack McCrea as you keep stating. She did confront him and ask him not to touch her things... It was at this point that McCrea escalated the situation by getting loud and attacking her instead of reasonably and politely saying that he was sorry if he had overstepped a boundary. I still cannot fathom how you find her to be obnoxious with respect to this event with McCrea.

The Condom/napkin incident is certainly not understandable in any situation

Monk.

I saw the entire thing, and imo she had no business attacking him without proof that he'd moved her things. He told her GM took her baseball, and GM confirmed that last night. I think Elissa got what she asked for from him, and I was happy to see it, because women must learn to stop attacking men, and expecting them to roll over and respect them because they're females. Respect should flow in both directions.

From a game stand point, I think Mc is doing a very good job. In 8 weeks he managed to stay off the block, and he's now trying to set up a new male alliance that will take out Amanda and the other females, and they don't suspect a thing. Nice work....

I saw this very differently.

Amanda and McCrea had been taking and hiding Elissa's things... McCrea had been using everyone's clothes drawers.. he put his filthy unwashed clothes in whatever drawer as was convenient at the time. Elissa took his filthy gear out of the three drawers that she had been using since day one and put them back into the drawers that he had stored his gear in beginning day one. Yesterday she asked that he not touch her things... Seems fair to me. He deserved everything he got from her... I would also say it's time we learn to stop requiring women to stay silent when bullied.

GM did not say that she took Elissa's baseballs... she said that she found one of them in one of the common rooms( I forget which room she said). My guess would be that Elissa is right.. They did hide her stuff(baseballs and all). They have definitely proven that that kind of thing is not beyond them... Amanda hid GM's "nick" gear... She has bullied her way through this game and most recently she left a tinkered with napkin and a condom for Elissa to find... These people are despicable.

Monk

I agree as Elissa is a better hypocrite.

Make your case.

If it is logical and creates a true nexus between a series of actual facts, is satisfactorily complete and compares that logic to the same process applied to the Dirty duo, then you'll have made your case and I'll have been forced to reconsider the issue of Elissa's superior hypocritical skills. If your argument is just based upon faulty logic, innuendo, and snarky spin, then you will have failed to make your case.

Monk

She's not better then they are because she can and has sunk as low as they do. Plus, she is as stupid as some of the others.

Wrong.

She is better than they are. To draw equivalence between Elissa and the the dirty duo is absurd.

Monk

I have to agree. I love this game, but I can't even stand to watch these people play it. I understand trying to play things up for the cameras, but it has gone way beyond anything interesting or fun to watch. I really sucks the we waited a year for this show and this is what we get. It seems like Amanda is trying her best to be like ED but it's just not working out for her.

They will be lucky if someone doesn't throw a punch with the way things are going.

I completely agree.

I have stopped watching the feeds and don't plan to watch the show tonight... This is not entertaining to me.

It's hard to believe that the McBullies haven't been given penalty noms for their comments... Amanda's "slit her throat" & "rape" statements should have been punishable and McDisgusting has earned a penalty nom just for being such the disgusting piece of trash that he is.

The Amanda & McCrea have completely turned me off to this show today. CBS, Fire your casting director.

Monk

I've been eagerly awaiting an interesting week in the BB house and evidently I'll have to do some more waiting... The chances for even a small part of this season to become interesting have been greatly diminished... On the plus side... Elissa gave us a got a couple of days of widespread HG panic....

If it keeps up like this, ( and there appears to be a very good chance that it will) this season will be the most boring season in BB history.

Monk

Amanda, McCrea and Andy have to be broken up... Elissa Aaryn, GM, Judd, & Spencer know that... If she puts up either GM, Spencer or Judd, she is left with no possibility of support if she goes up next week. If she puts up Andy, I think McManda will vote out Aaryn.

Monk

I think it's so long Aaryn...

This is why Elissa should've put both McBully & McNasty up as pair... Pigs are flying and McManda is safe for another week... Yuck.

Monk

Arrrgh!!!

Monk

I honestly hope Elissa is planning to BD Amanda, would LOVE to see her walk out that door and have a tantrum all at the same time lol.

What does it mean by "0 warning points?" Just wondering

It means you're new around here.

And, Welcome...

Monk

This bully collapses like a house of cards when she's not in the power position and her fear filled pleas to Elissa are just so full or irony.

Ah, the schadenfreude.

Monk

I haven't been glued to the feeds but I have NOT seen the McBullies in full HOH bedroom occupation mode unlike so many other HOH occupations of late.

I DID see Elissa tell Andy that she & GM were having a 'talk' leaving him to retreat. Now that hasn't been the hallmark of other HOH terms.

Although I don't think putting up Aaryn was a bit of good strategy, I am impressed with Elissa's determination to think it through for herself and reject the puppet trap that comes from the fear of the power couple like so many have in the past. She's come up her own decisions and she's willing to lose on the merits of her own decisions... A first in the BB15 house. Courage, whodda thunkit.... Good going Elissa.

Monk