Ryan

[Marty]

Good point SCRebel very good point.

People do not like a woman doing the backstabbing that making them a Bitch.

With guys it is good game play.

[SCRebel]

You keep saying Sharon is loved. Really? Even her alliance thought she was pretty much a boring and useless player.

So even if those three voted for her, she would still need to secure the vote of one of the others. Why is she a lock for Matt, Natalie, Sheila, or Adam's vote exactly?

[uvp]

in all honesty Xal the people who are like never make the end because they are usually bad players eg. janelle, kaysar, alex

[SCRebel]

Kaysar and Janelle have to be two of the worst strategic players in Big Brother/Survivor history.

[Xal]

....because in order for Sharon to get to the end Ryan would need to betray Adam or Shiela, and if he does, there's no way they are going to vote for him with that backstab so fresh in their memory.

[uvp]

Kaysar and Janelle have to be two of the worst strategic players in Big Brother/Survivor history.

like hg are usually worst strategic players

[SCRebel]

And I say why not?

[uvp]

ryan lost any shot to win moment he took out nat or helped take her out

[Xal]

...because they're human beings, Rebel. This isn't a sport or a board game where winning just means...uhh, well you won.

This is for life changing money.

If someone who is a "friend" beats me in basketball, I lose nothing.

If someone who is a "friend" backstabs me where the prize is 50k or 500k, I'm going to be just a TAD more upset. Wouldn't you?

It's so easy for us to sit here on our thrones and say "it's just a game" but you know what? We're not sitting there one week away from life changing money which could help our family and make things easier on people we know and love.

[SCRebel]

Everyone wants the "life-changing money". Nobody is entitled to it. If someone backstabs you, they didn't steal it. Seriously, this comes up every season and plenty of people end up voting for someone who backstabbed them anyways. You act like everyone is a bitter loser and entitled to be so.

[Xal]

Then. Name. One.

Why won't you?

Just name ONE....just ONE person in Survivor history or BB history who people hated but voted for over someone else they loved and cared about.

You keep saying people have done it over and over again yet you won't provide one instance where it happened.

I will say it again. There has never been an instance in Survivor or BB history where someone genuinely liked or loved lost over someone the majority hated.

I hate to sound like I'm "badgering the witness" but if you're going to say it happens all the time, I'd just like to hear one instance.

...and no, if it's two people that the jury didn't care about and they voted for one of them, that doesn't count. We're talking about someone liked, and someone disliked and the majority who liked the one voted for the one they disliked because of game.

[GingerSnaps]

Just name ONE....just ONE person in Survivor history or BB history who people hated but voted for over someone else they loved and cared about.

Isn't that extreme "loved and cared about." I think the only two people that would qualify in that statment for BB history would be Dick and Dani because they are father and daughter, otherwise I think in the end it all comes down to the money and these people could care less if they see eachother again (unless it brings them more money).

So throwing out the "loving and caring" about...plenty of times hg get votes based on their gameplay and not how they were liked or disliked during the game.

[TML]

I don't think the majority of the jury liked Dick or Danielle.

[Xal]

Fine, maybe it was extreme. Change "loved" to "liked" instead and you'll see the same pattern.

Now I will concede having a truly likeable person in the final 2 is incredibly rare. I can think of one off the top of my head in Ethan Zohn from Survivor Outback, and he won.

Most of the time the final 2 are disliked OR the final 2 is a couple people that no one really cares about. Floaters who everyone liked rarely get to the end.

If Sharon DOES get to the end, I am not above saying "I told you so". =)

[SCRebel]

Except Sharon is not LOVED and CARED ABOUT. Jesus Christ. You keep going round and round in circles with your arguments.

Nobody that makes final two is ever LOVED and CARED ABOUT. Most of the time the jury isn't too fond of either but ends up voting for the better player. If Sharon makes the end you won't hear all these broad statements of how loved she is. Everyone thinks a floater will be loved by the jury at the end of every season and yet every season we hear people rant about how that person did "nothing" to get there and doesn't deserve the money.

It'd be comparable to Erika and Mike in my opinion. Erika hadn't done jack shit while Mike had betrayed a lot of people. Mike ended up winning because his gameplay was considered better.

[kywildcat]

I think if Sharon would make it to F2, the jury may consider how many times she survived the block.

[Marty]

Sharon did nothing to survive the block. She was always the pawn and never anything else. The only time she campaigned if I am correct was against her "partner" Josh.

I don't see her getting more then a few if ANY votes from the Jury. Maybe Sheila...

[Sara5229]

I'm having trouble loading some pages bc I'm using my cell phone to read this stuff right now. What is the argument about? Is Ryan planning on backdooring Adam?

[Marty]

Adam says he is evicting Sheila and the bros F2.

[carmen]

I actually think Sharon stands as good of a shot at winning with the jury as the others. She already has James, Chelsia, and Josh. All she needs is one more vote to give her the majority -- and that fourth vote could easily be Sheila's, especially if final two is Sharon and Ryan. If Sheila perceives that Ryan has double-crossed her or Adam in any way, I believe Sheila could very well vote for Sharon in the end, and that's all it would take. Plus, I believe Sheila truly likes Sharon so it wouldn't take much for her to be swayed to give Sharon her vote.

[tessieroo]

I wonder if Ryan actually thinks he might win big against ANY of these people. He keeps saying he's content with 50 thousand. Does anyone think that any of the jury would give him the bigger prize?

[Xal]

Like I said, I'll say I told you so.

I mean, some of you don't even think Josh will vote for Sharon, the guy who slept with her every night and said how much he loves her as a friend?

I give up.

You guys are entitled to your opinions AS ALWAYS but when you won't even provide ONE example of someone hated by the majority that won over someone the majority liked, I have a hard time even glancing at your opinion, much less considering it as a possibility.

I'm done going back and forth here. Sharon wins against Ryan or Shiela, and it's a tossup against Adam.

[tessieroo]

I happen to agree with you! I can't think of one time that people voted for someone they hated over someone they liked. (Dick/Danielle doesn't count - they were both hated) I also love all the people saying they'll vote for someone who WON stuff. Ummm....no. Dr Will didn't win a single HoH or POV and he won cuz they all liked him.

[Slowpoke]

Just wanted to throw in here that Tom (the fireman) on Survivor, Palau was pretty well liked...

(this is just an excuse to mention Tom, by the way....)

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/05/16/...ain695415.shtml

[SCRebel]

It is hard to take YOUR opinion seriously when you're not even providing proof of your giant claim that Sharon is loved and well-liked by all. What proof is there that Chelsia even gave a shit about her? Or that Matt, Natalie, Sheila, and Adam all "loved" Sharon? None.

But yes, you're right, in the history of reality tv I have never seen an absolutely despised player beat a well-loved player. Of course, it's extremely rare anyone "loves" anybody that makes a final two by that point so there's what like... two cases of that happening (Survivors Africa and Palau) with both cases the person who was generally well-liked also happened to be the better player.

There are however, numerous cases when the person that was a huge backstabber and lied the most ends up winning due to good gameplay. Here are some examples: Richard (Survivor 1), Will (Big Brother 2), Brian (Survivor 5), Chris (Survivor 9), Mike (Big Brother 7), Dick (Big Brother 8), Todd (Survivor 15). And then countless other examples where people lied about the same and won due to better gameplay. So for you to say it's IMPOSSIBLE for such and such to happen is foolish because Sharon is not the most liked person ever as you seem to claim.