fizzle Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Sorry but she called those of us discussing it Obsessed, yet here she is. She struck first with the insult, yet she is doing the same thing excuse me, but i never called you obsessed and i even said as much in another post, yet you still want to say i did. i really dont understand why. i was not insulting you. as for comparing me to the guy from the other website... i hardly call posting one pic and a paragraph "doing the same thing" as him.... but whatever. i dont spend much time pondering whether so and so cheated or if another one lost their job. a few minutes here and there and a post here and there and i am good to go till next season... i assume that is how a lot of people are. but yeah, if some guy spends half his day or longer with charts and eye movements and pics and whatnot.. i think its a little overboard. but, thats just my opinion and just like everyone else has one, i have one too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Yoooo hooooooo I read it a couple times. To me is was a buncha gobbly goop. There was not one thing that convinced me that Dick cheated. Erin and Fizzy have summed it up very well and I concur. So if some want to keep giving that crazy stuff credibility then I will keep saying it is a bunch of bunk. just sayin... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talker Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Oh sorry fizzle so you were calling that guy obsessed. i think its that we are not obsessed with it like the people that are going back and forth about how it was rigged or how he cheated. Sorry I wasnt aware the guy was more than one person and going back and forth with himself my bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 What post # are you quoting fizzle? I really don't remember seeing that in this thread. I am getting so confused. I for one do not want to argee with anyone. I would like to talk about the content of the cheating accusation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEDI Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 I am not going to clean up this mess this time. I'll just try to direct it a little from this point forward. LISTEN: To all those who have said that they are convinced (one way or the other), and don't need to discuss it anymore, please live up to your word, and stop discussing it, leaving others who would like to continue discussing it to do so in peace. (Please do not come here and tell others to stop discussing it because YOU are done.) If you chose not to read the actual article (which is NOT talking about the mirror directly behind them that has been partially blacked out, but ANOTHER mirror entirely) then too bad. IF you're not going to bother reading the article we are discussing, then you can't discuss it, obviously. Your mind is made up, go on about your business somewhere else. And another thing... this thread is not to concern itself with whether or not Dick DID or DID NOT "cheat", just whether it would have been possible for anyone sitting where Dick was to have had the opportunity to see Zach's answers. THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT DICK. (If it ever was, IT ISN'T ANYMORE!) Call it whatever you want, but if the subject of Dick is too emotional for some of you to discuss rationally, the Dick part is removed from the equation. Post at your own risk, I'm watching, and warning levels will be adjusted for violations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fizzle Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Jedi, i think you are the first one to actually post something to make me re-read it. (since i havent read it since it first was posted.. it wasnt fresh in my mind) so thanks. its kind of hard to have a discussion when everything you say gets twisted around or your jumped on for liking dick. and apparently the people posting here (including myself) are not done talking about BB cause we are still here reading about it and posting about it. i think sometimes things get repetitive and out of frustration we see posters saying "enough already".. and yet, they usually dont stop posting over it. anyways, about the final comp... i dont see how dick could see zach's card. first off... he would have to turn his head and look to that mirror off to his right. pretty much through the whole comp, he was looking straight ahead up or down.. with a few times looking off to the right a little but to the bottom right and not upper right where the mirror is. even in the pictures the guy posted, it shows dick looking straight ahead and a few with him with that blank look to the right but it looks like he was looking to the right of the tv. also, when zach would pick up a card as his answer (this is when dick would be cheating by looking in that mirror to his right) Dick is looking forward and then picks up his answer. then there is that final pic posted by that guy... i think the camera angle makes a difference. just because this guy made his arrows the way he did, doesnt mean that is how the reflexion would be. mirrors can and have been deceiving.. i just dont buy into this guys theory and he even posts pics that goes against his theory. he has no picture what so ever showing dick actually cheating. and for me, that says a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yath Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Thank you very much, JEDI. Your common sense is greatly appreciated. So...in answer to the way you've phrased the question again JEDI, no I don't think it was possible for someone to cheat from that particular position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snancypants Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Okay I am "posting at my own risk"! I did not like Dick - made that plain early in the season. I watched AND read the report. This is my own opinion -- I DON'T CARE ANYMORE - dwelling on it gives Dick more notoriety than I think he deserves. Doesn't matter - it was a silly show, it is over, he won, he got the money. What is the motto of people in AA? Accept the things you cannot change - Change the things you can and grant me the wisdom to know the difference? For me - thanks for the wisdom. No matter what I think is not gonna change things so why worry about it. Side A is not gonna change the mind of Side B so I choose to go to Switzerland and be neutral! (Jedi, I was being nice - please don't give me a warning!!!!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 If you chose not to read the actual article (which is NOT talking about the mirror directly behind them that has been partially blacked out, but ANOTHER mirror entirely) then too bad. IF you're not going to bother reading the article we are discussing, then you can't discuss it, obviously. Your mind is made up, go on about your business somewhere else. I read and studied it again for a 3rd time. I really tried to see and understand why people would think that CBS and Dick cheated. I just DO NOT see it. I see a lot of speculation about eyes looking at toparary tables and a flash in a mirror that could be photoshopped or reflection of a light. Eyes moving around? I don't see that. I see a person made a diagram that showed Dick's eyes and an arrow pointing to a glass table ~ or a mirror? To me it is someone working very hard to create and illusion that Dick was cheating. I don't see any cheating by Dick and CBS in what this person posted. Before this one came out I saw one that was a lot cruder and was showing a different version of Dick cheating and mirrors in different places. So at the end of the day...... I am not convinced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yana Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 They taught us in pysh class in college that when a person is trying to REMEMBER something the will look up in most cases... That's all I got to add to this, all I saw was a man looking up...I don't know if it was possible, could have been, but I don't believe it did happen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King123 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 no cheating occured. jmho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted October 11, 2007 Author Share Posted October 11, 2007 I went back to read this analysis, just to remind myself again what the main points were... 1) Dick is not looking up, but to the side. 2) The mirror in question is not the one behind the two, which is blacked out, but the one behind Zach's left shoulder, behind which the camera must be located for the shot at the bottom of the page. Arguably, this one is not blacked out given the camera angle and shot. 3) Dick delays answering questions until after Zach places his answers, often switching his card from correct to incorrect to match Zach's. Also, Zach places his cards side by side, whilst Dick's are stacked one upon the other, allowing him to shuffle his answers more easily. 4) The mirror/reflection in question that Dick is thought to be looking at is the table with the topiary OR maybe the higher mirror (I think though, it's the table). It is reflecting an image from the downcast mirror that is below the television upon which Julie Chen is speaking to the contestants. Are all of these things damning in and of themselves? Perhaps not. But taking them all into consideration, I think it is certainly possible to say that because of the set up that Dick could have cheated, and based on his behavior, it's certainly possible that he did. I don't think that the set up was intentional (or if it was, then the producers have a lot of explaining to do!) but once a player discovers that they might have an advantage, they will exploit it. If Dick discovered that he could see Zach's answers, I am sure he would take advantage of it (who in their right minds wouldn't?). I myself can see no other explanation for the constant glances to the right (and I don't think he's looking up, but to the right in those screenshots) and the delays in the presentation of his answers. I am really not one to ascribe to conspiracy theories myself. I thought this was a very thoughtful and well done analysis, and I think that it's certainly within the realm of possibility, given the evidence presented, that cheating could have occurred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMDGirl Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 A part of me thinks that there is no way that Dick cheated, BUT, there is a part of me that says maybe he did! It is very coincidental that after he got the first question correct that all of his other answers were the same as Zach. That is very smart thinking to realize that you would win the game if you answer every other question the same as Zach. Now, of course, based on Evel's character on the BB8 show, I would think that he would be capable and willing to cheat. The analysis posted obviously cannot definitively prove that he cheated. So do we give Dick the benefit of the doubt? I would LOVE to ask him the question just to see his response. But again, I would probably be berated or insulted that I could even think such a thing. Maybe the little piece of plastic was kind of see through and he could see if the card was black when Zach answered which would explain why he was looking down. Crazy theory? Perhaps but it just seems like something was "rotten in Denmark." Just my opinion and I'm not a Dick hater nor Dick lover...but at that point in the game, I do think that Dick was capable of doing ANYTHING to ensure that he and Daniele went to the final 2, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joyami Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 No, no cheating possible. I feel the competition was in no way rigged. Yes, and I did read the entire article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trixiepal Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 I believe that the final competition between Zach and Dick is very questionable. The fact that Dick answered each question after Zach with Julie calling for his answer on numerous occasions, then for Dick's answer to be exactly like Zach's even when it was wrong makes it suspect in my eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMDGirl Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 Final BB8 competition analysis, Was it possible for Dick to have cheated? Based on all evidence presented and personally witnessed watching the show, I believe that it was POSSIBLE! I loved watching Big Brother this year and whether it was possible or not possible or what you want to believe, I will watch BB next year as well. Remember back in the day when game shows were questioned about rigging the winners, etc.? I don't think that the producers of BB did anything intentionally BUT I believe that "it was possible." [i hope that I don't get ridiculed for my opinion or wanting to talk about my opion.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted October 12, 2007 Author Share Posted October 12, 2007 [i hope that I don't get ridiculed for my opinion or wanting to talk about my opion.] Certainly not!!! I hope you didn't feel like I was jumping on you the other night, that wasn't my intention. BTW... looks like you are new to Morty's... welcome, and don't feel shy in joining in on the fun!!! I feel the same as you do, actually... I am a fan, and I am gonna watch. Just because I think that this season had some questionable moments, and after the analysis of the final comp, I was really raising an eyebrow, it doesn't mean that I don't enjoy watching the show or don't want to watch it in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justme Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 Welcome BigMDGirl -- and thanks for joining our discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 I think shortly we will see someone come out with something that will totally blow that poster's diagram out of the water. Eyes moving a certain way, answering the question slowly and with caution and a topiary table in the room does not make a case for cheating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fizzle Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 i still say if it was possible for dick to cheat.. then it was also possible for zach to cheat. of course, for any of this cheating to take place... i think the BB crew would have to be involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEDI Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 From the way I understood the article, because of the layout of the walls and mirrors, anyone sitting where Zach was did not have the same reflection angles as the person in the other seat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 The whole problem is that you have to believe the article and to believe that a mirror was in place for Dick to see. There could have been something that was set up to help Zach cheat. I am not saying that happened at all but it is just as possible in my opinion. This person that did this diagram is a confessed Dick hater. (that is what he calls himself on the CBS website). Like I mentioned before there were a few other cheating diagrams that came out with the "proof" that Dick cheated. They showed a different version of how Dick cheated. The mirrors were different and the eye movement thing showed different eye movements. It was not as well done as this last guy did. There was also another one showing Daniele making hand movements and people saying that Dick could see them in the mirror. There were people saying that Daniele coughed and cleared her throat and helped Dick cheat. People will do anything to find what they want. I still say that I don't beleive that Dick cheated and I don't think the proof was shown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackcat3 Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 I read the whole thing and to be honest in my opninion, this is a fan who didnt have their favorite in the final two so they are trying to find something to say he cheated. Do you really think BB would go back and take back the prize and do it again?? Besides if first place loses shouldnt it automatically go to second place, so what would it matter?? The big thing about the mirror in front of them, is silly because it is angled down you can see it is pointing at the floor. Again this is JMO but I think this is just grasping at straws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ranjake Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 i read the article and looked at all of the pictures several times. i'm definitely not ridiculing anyone's opinion. the answers to the questions were sort of totally random, though. they really could've been either, or...so that's another reason why dick's facial expressions and "searching for the answers" in the sky made sense to me. even though i don't see the fix, it was an interesting analysis to me. thanks for reminding me marty, i saw those other "proof" hypothesis', too...including the daniele hand signals bouncing off the mirror over zach's head... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justme Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 So far, I've read nothing to discredit the actual analysis on this thread (other than 'he didn't cheat from what I read (or saw)'), and now some are claiming the guy's a Dick hater or the whole thing's invalid because he supposedly posts at CBS (based only on someone here saying he does, not fact, and who cares if he does?). And someone said those who agree with the analysis or at least question it are grasping at straws? Um, speaking of mirrors. (I'm not including Fizzle's argument -- even though she at least made an effort, with details, as to why she didn't believe the article -- because that wasn't the mirror the analysis was talking about, but another one entirely). If this were a debate, I think I know where 'credability' would lie, at least for me -- it would be with the person who put a thorough, well thought out report together, and provided detailed reasons, images, and an intelligent analysis to back up his words. Let's discuss the analysis (those of you who read it thoroughly) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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