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BigMack

Did the coaches make or ruin this cast?

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I know people feel strongly (one way or the other) about brining veterans back in to play the game. But my question isn't about that. Do you think this cast would have been better off if they had just played good old fashioned Big Brother?

Personally, I say yes. No matter what, this game is going to have drama. People are going to form alliances then stab each other in the back. People's personalities are going to clash and they will fight. And people are going to do and say whatever they have to get the money. So I don't think the producers needed the coaches. And I have said it before but will repeat it here ... I think the coaches restricted some of the people that were cast to be big players in the game.

Kara was booted solely because she was on Dan's team. Nothing more than the threat of Dan cost her a chance to actually play.

Will was a target early because Jani coveted him so obviously and because he was stuck on a team with Joe and Ashley ... probably the two most worthless people of the season.

I think Britney really stunted Shane's growth as a player. He didn't know the game and didn't have the chance to learn. Brit was playing hard from Day 1 and essentially told Shane what to do. Then, when the Quack Pack was formed, he had Brit and Dan making his decisions for him. He never really learned the art of game talk and he will probably won't make the best decision if he wins one of these last HOHs or POVs because he hasn't had to make a decision for himself all season.

Frank fell into Chilltown and couldn't escape. I really think he would have been a totally different player without Boogie. He is obviously strong from a physical standpoint but, early on, I thought he played a good social game and his charisma would take him far. But his love for Boogie and the ego he developed in part because of Boogie's attitude towards everyone else in the house, really turned him into a pariah.

But most of all, I thought the coaches twist ruined the game because it forces alliances on the players. Willie wreaked havoc on Shane and JoJo. Power players like Frank and Shane had no chance to team up and roll through the house. Wil, Dani and Jenn didn't get a chance to use their social games to their advantage. They just played in the shadows of their coaches and everyone was forced to play with people they almost definitely would not have teamed up with.

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I am the oddball - I have always liked having veterans return weather it is in BB or Survivor. :lol:

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I am very curious which alliances would have formed without the coaches. Jodi, Kara and Wil are the three people who I most wish I would have had a chance to see play without the coaches.

In the end, BB is not a team sport and every time BB tries to force teams or partners on the players the result is usually disappointing. I think BB is best when it's at its simplest, when the season is allowed to unfold on its own. When the producers try to force things, it really takes away from what makes BB special. Real BB magic comes from the personalities of a great cast, not from producer meddling.

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I like to see returning players myself but like should stay with like, if you get my meaning. Returning players should be with returning players. The coaches had a role and were there to advise and instruct the players. Old rivalries between the coaches influenced how they played the game and hurt the regular HGs. Then with the twist, coaches started looking out for themselves and tried first to make alliances among themselves, dragging along some of their "pupils". I feel the coaches had a big advantage because they had gotten to know the players on their team and knew their strengths and shortcomings.

I think it would have been much better without the coaches. I prefer the regular old fashioned style of BB. Fourteen people thrown together and learning to survive on their own wits. ;)

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I do believe that the influence of the coaches stunted some who would have otherwise done well in the game alone, while others would have been evicted so fast we wouldn't remember them without the coaches comp saves. The particular players who I feel were most affected:

Frank: He and Boogie isolated themselves too much which prevented Frank from really building relationships.

Ian: In his case, without Boogie Ian would have been evicted the first week and wasn't thanks to being given safety. Also, lets not forget how much having Brit in the house helped him too. Without both those coaches Ian's summer would have been very different.

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I think the coaches didn't ruin the game, but because they were there, the players were forced into an alliance that maybe they would not have had if they were allowed to play their own game. I know that they did not have to follow the coaches wishes but this cast pretty much did so it is what it is. I think Frank would have benefited the most without the coaches because Boogie was his coach. They latched on to each other and forgot they had other players on their team. I think that Boogies influence on Frank is how Frank has played this game and his social game kinda sucks. He feels he is the only person there that deserves to be there because he has been fighting since week 1. Its true that he has been fighting since week 1 but if you are always on the block then you should figure out that it probably isn't just because you win comps.

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I didn't like the coaches twist at all, and as soon as I saw that there were 4 teams of 3, I knew the coaches would be entering the game at some point.

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Hated the coaches returning and hated the reset - but since the reset it's become the best season in years IMO, though arguably as influential as the coaches have been in the whole thing, it's the originals that have been willing to flip their game every week and that may have still happened without the coaches around. Or not - we'll never know.

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I hated the coaches twist at the beginning and was against the coaches coming into the game but I actually think it all made the season better because of it. At the beginning the targets were because of the coaches and not about who was actually a threat and who wasn't. When the reset happened the game changed to more about threats and what not. This season is one of the best because there are actualy players who are playing the game. The only two floaters in the game are Joe and Jenn, where everyone else is playing and making moves. Without the coaches I think Danielle would have been gone by now because Shane, Frank, Willy, and probably Wil would have teamed up to take down everyone else and I think they would have been very successful in doing so.

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I did not like the coaches twist because of the way it was done. The coaches were actually players that could not be evicted. I think it would have been much better if the coaches would have been restricted to a limited amount of time with their players each day and banned or restricted from having any interaction with the other team players. The coaches were actually the ones that were making the deals for players and calling all the shots. That's not coaching, that's being a mob boss.

Personally, I like all fresh players. I like to watch the different players learn how to play the game and use their own talents to advance in the game. Watch the natural alliances develop. The game is much purer with all new people, even though most of them come in with a planned strategy to win the game. BB brings back players because of their star power, but by bringing back stars, they limit the ability of other players to become BB stars.

To me the season was boring until the QP and Silent 6 formed and the scheming began. Just waiting for the inevitable blow up to happen is when the season really began for me. It didn't hurt that Boogie was the first one to get the knife slipped into his back...lol.

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No fan of the coaches twist. Don't mind seeing previous players together but not with newbies. Jodie didn't have a chance, along with Kara.

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Jodi was the unfortunately casualty of a twist that essentially guaranteed a book would go home simply for its cover alone.... not really the coaches twist.

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I hated the coaches twist and never believed they wouldn't somehow enter the game.

IMO, the only way reruns show be allowed is if everyone is a rerun, allstars, good vs evil, and the like.

Otherwise, I feel, the reruns have an unfair advantage over the newbies and in many cases they have pre-existing relationships.

And we don't need any more Jesse appearances.....

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I really don't know how to respond to this. It's a tough one. I have not liked any one player in the game except some of the coaches, and I liked Shane until I saw how indecisive he was. Janelle was my all time favorite, but I did not like her game. Boogie I have not liked any season, and he ruined Frank's season. Brit was enjoyable with her in your face comments. But my favorite of the season has been Dan's game!! Love him or not he made the game since his funeral..He will probably be gone before the final 4,but he made a boring season come alive for me.

I agree that a lot of the players got an early out because of the coaches. But since the reset, I have enjoyed a dead season. There has been more back stabbing and big game moves in any season of BB. And I still don't know who is going to stick by who...But I can't wait to see..

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I am the oddball - I have always liked having veterans return weather it is in BB or Survivor. :lol:

I kinda like returning players too but would much rather see an All-Stars season than veterans vs newbies which they have done for two seasons in a row now. My problem with the coaches twist wasn't that there were coaches but that they removed the whole point of the coaches by giving the coaches on their last leg the option of forcing the other coaches to start at ground zero again and erasing the advantage that Boogie and Janelle had worked hard to earn by keeping all their players in the game. It's like playing a quarter of the Superbowl with one team building a huge lead and then giving the other team the option of starting the game over. What was the whole point of the first three weeks? They should have given all of the coaches the option of coaching or playing. I think this has been a good season despite the coaches twist not because of it.

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I actually didn't mind the coaches idea and having a different game within the game. It was something different and added more interest to the show for me. However, as soon as they had the option to come into the game that went out the door.

I would generally prefer a cast of all new players. However, looking back on this season in particular I don't know if all new players would have been that interesting, unless they made some really good casting decisions. Looking at just the new cast from this season, there are only really a couple standouts, the rest are pretty bland choices. Having Kara in the game longer wouldn't have made things anymore interesting for me as she didn't strike me as someone to rile things up any. Her time in the house was pretty uneventful.

The most interesting part of this season has been Dan and his funeral and the fallout from that. That all stemmed from Ian turning his back on Frank and Boogie. So, take that out of this season and what are you really left with?

I think in many instances the coach was more interesting than the players they had under them. There's no doubt without the coaches the game would have turned out different, but for the better?

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I like seeing returning players; however, I think it would make for a better game with all newbies.

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BigMack, I agree with a lot of your original post. When the producers choose to change the dynamics of the original concept of this show, you're going to have a different outcome. I understand when these folks sign a contract with CBS or Endemol or whoever, they agreed to accept the decisions made on how this particular season would play out. I don't think having previous house guests come into the game in any aspect is a benefit for the people playing the game for the first time.

I almost feel like TPTB don't have enough confidence in their selection of house guests for a season. They think they have to rely on previous players to boost ratings and keep the viewers returning for more. I totally disagree with that notion. If you have a dozen strangers come together for the first time you're going to experience interesting twists and turns in the game. Let the house guests decide who they will join with in order to get them further in the game. Personally, I'd love to see a season without any familiar faces whatsoever. Why is that so hard for these producers to do?????

If you want to see previous players then have an all-star season. Otherwise, give some newbies a fair shot at creating new HG we can all love or love to hate without the help of rerun HG. lol

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For me the coaches made the cast. This is the first year I have watched BB... and I loved Boogie. He was such a great villain. I know Britany was somewhat annoying but I thought she was one of the more entertaining people in the house. And Dan is so sly and smooth manipulating and working people without them having a clue. I didn't really care for Janielle, but at least she was nice to look at. Except for a few of the newbies, most of them have been boring and not done a whole lot.

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i am not a fan of returning hg's

they always overshadow the new cast

for those that like jeff, jordan just imagine if they had multiple returning hg's on their season would they still be as popular today

i doubt it

they had jessie but he wasnt popular in the least and he was just one returning hg

the seasonal twist with vets is always design in way to give them immunity and cause dissension amongst the newbies so a newbie will likely never win when you have multiple return vets :animated_bouncy:

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I think it could have been a good idea but they should have followed through......they never thought ahead, hello, they were 2 coaches with 1 and 2 coaches with 3.....seems to me they had NO guidlines and played the whole thiing by ear. Then, put the coaches in; IMO a fair game has rules and the contestants are advised at the start. The rules of this game changed with the circumstances.

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I think it could have been a good idea but they should have followed through......they never thought ahead, hello, they were 2 coaches with 1 and 2 coaches with 3.....seems to me they had NO guidlines and played the whole thiing by ear. Then, put the coaches in; IMO a fair game has rules and the contestants are advised at the start. The rules of this game changed with the circumstances.

exactly the rules was made up as the game went along

which is why i hated the vagueness in the beginning :animated_bouncy:

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I don't think the coaches ruined this season. I really would have liked to have seen which coach would have gotten at least one of their players to the end.

Each coach had a different set of tactics, but some of the newbies weren't interested in the assistance they were getting from the coaches, ie Wil and some

were just ignored by theirs, ie Ian & Jenn.

Could have been interesting for the coaches to go the full distance in the game as coaches, but we'll never know what would have/could have transpired.

Kind of a let down.

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