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Episode #11: I Just Like The Recess Part

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My previous example in my last post was more extreme to illustrate my point, I think what is more common is similar to very subtle racism. With the case of racism, a teacher clearly knows not say\do anything directly that might be perceived as racist, but if a teacher is racist, it will be expressed in subtle and small ways even when the teacher is unaware of it. When a teacher doesn't like a child, it can't be completely hidden, but hidden just enough that it can't be identified by a specific act or comment, yet the child can still feel it, like a minority child can sense that a racist teacher perceives them a second class student. One example that comes to mind was watching an adult talk to a group of boys that had one little black boy, she talked fairly normal to white boys, but always tended to talk slower and simpler to the black boy. I don't believe she was aware that she was treating the black boy so differently. She wasn't being mean towards the boy, but it appeared to me she had some minor racist attitudes that blacks boys weren't quite as smart. I can see a teacher being just as unaware about minor changes in behavior when dealing with children the teacher doesn't like.

I understand your point, and I know that since teachers are human regardless of their training, it probably does happen sometimes. I don't think it's common, but it would be naive of me to say there are no racist or even unqualified teachers out there. We're just going to have to disagree on whether or not it can be completely hidden. It's an unfortunate part of being human that sometimes you just won't like someone. Sometimes that someone will be a child who doesn't really deserve your dislike, but it's going to happen. Happens more with teachers because they deal with so many kids. Fortunately, teachers have to go through a lot of child/adolescent psych and training so they can attempt to make sure never to treat a child badly or show dislike even if they don't notice it. Some teachers will go out of their way to treat a child they dislike exceptionally well just to make sure the negative vibe doesn't rub off on the other students.

Taylor needs to be taught that not being pretty doesn't mean you should die. That's a messed up way of thinking, and she needs some help in that.

Amen to that. I didn't really think about that before, but you are right. That's actually a little more troubling than the spoiled attitude.

Fuskie

Who believes that the kids talk about who they want to nominate for the Gold Star when they line up to give their opinion to the Town Council, which would explain how the finalists seem to have a pretty good idea that they have a chance to be named...

Good point. We didn't see a nomination thing this week so I was thinking there might not have been one, but there probably was. Not sure about the 50k winner. If it's a special deal, I don't see why the kids who already won gold stars should be left out of the running for it. I wonder if it's going to be some big "who did the best job overall in helping Bonanza City" thing. In that case I think the previous winners would be in the running. I also think the Council should be eligible and this one should be voted on by the entire town. Of course you might get 37(is that right?) individual votes, but I don't think you would.

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I have a couple more comments about the last few episode that I don't think have been explored here.

First, the communication game an episode back. This is the first time I have seen a kid try to bring something from their personal lives into Bonanza City. It was doomed to failure, of course. That is the point of the game, to show kids how hard it is to communicate effectively and fairly.

Michael continues to have a issue overcoming his timidity. He is a peacemaker, but as a leader he has suffered from the difficulty of being a good leader and still being a liked person. A true leader would have made sure that his District (Green won Upper Class) did not rub the other districts' nose in their early access to the arcade by setting an example and working with the rest of the town to get the chores done. It was the same mistake Laurel made, setting apart Green District from the others. There is no mistake that this district is stronger than the others when it comes to working hard. But to paraphrase Spiderman, with great authority comes great responsibility.

Laurel deserves credit for Green's win in the showdown. She was the second pioneer to bring an idea from their real life into Bonanza City and acting out the history of Bonanza City made learning fun. Having Alex read (while the others slept), or ignoring the book like Taylor did, were clearly not as successful strategies. I was surprised, however, that Red District performed so poorly since they have always come across as more brainy (between Jared, Mike and Nathan, who have always impressed me with their intelligence). I can understand their having trouble with the slingshot, but there were a lot of wrong answers as well.

As I said before, Taylor has Zach to thank for being allowed into the arcade. I am sure she feels that the chickens are her only friends at this point. Maybe she still has a chance for that redemption story, but it will be up to her and not creative editing to make it happen. I am sure the off-camera counselors are working hard on her. Zach is a good kid and was a good leader in my book. Now that he is off the Town Council, he is still showing leadership qualities.

Fuskie

Who throws open the door for conversation...

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Fuskie wrote:

And here is another question I'll toss out for you. With only a couple episodes left and the revelation that a final $50k gold star will be awarded, and assuming that $20k gold star winners are not eligible, who deserves the final big award?

Did I over looks some info, where did the $50K come from?

Without knowing more info, this seems totally whacked to me. 50K will be award to someone who will, at least from our perspective, will come out of no where, or will become a superhero by saving the town from total collapse. Need a lot more info for this to make any sense. The whole awarding for the 20K as stands now is so vague anyway that a kid really doesn't earn it nor deserve it more than the rest. I'd rather see them draw names out of a hat so that everyone has equal chance, not because wind was blowing NE rather than SW.

My thinking\speculation is that the final reward will be huge, such as all the kids will end up getting a 20K goal star, but they will have to earn it as town. Of course the game will be rigged so they can't fail, but will struggle to succeed (which is my perception of what the producers are doing overall).

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Its over in the KN spoilers. ;)

Edit: I can't find it now.....they had it blacked out and you had to click on it.

Found it on post #1 in Episode 13......its blacked out and you have to click on it. It has a warning that it has spoilers. So please don't go there and click if you don't want to know.

I'm bad....I had to peek... :giggle::pixiedust:

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It maybe true, but I am highly suspicious they would award a single kid $50K. My question right now would be Why? But then again the the whole award process is totally bogas to me anyway because there is nothing a kid can learn do to better his\her self. Does working hard, being nicer, helping others make a difference? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe it is making a speech? How about making tough decisions that everybody hates, but needs to be done? Who in the hell knows. Maybe it is the sun is shinning bright on one kid, while other kids were off hauling water. Hell is could be any random act that made Bonaza City's headline that day.

"Jack was very helpful today while collecting eggs and he always smiles at the younger kids. Yeah, let's give him 20K this time".

or

"Jane, sets table every night at dinner and is always in a good mood when she gets up in the moring, Yeah, let's give her a gold star"

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I think it will be a town vote. JMHO :pixiedust:

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I know many people don't like Taylor but at least she has a mind of her own. She will be the boss someday while all the others will be wishing they had the strength to say and do what they feel. The girl has balls and her parents should be proud. If they give out 50k she should get it just for standing up to all of them.

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Thanks TCS, I found it. ..... We shall see what happens. I'll be surprised, and disappointed, if at the very end, the remaining kids are not given a chance to somehow, someway, win a gold star for themselves. Clearly as I have pointed out over several posts, I perceive the reward process as being far to subjective to give every kid a equal chance to win. And I don't believe the producers would rig the show to have a reward theme\system of "Sometimes life is not fair and the less deserving, or more vocal, or lucky people get ahead in life, while honest hard work, kindness, etc only get you so far, but sometimes that just not good enough to make you worthy of success and happiness." I ackwnowledge that some people do beleive the forces the control the universe are that random, and more often than not good people finish last, while bad people cheat their way to the top, or get their by luck, but I just don't buy into that way of thinking. I do beleive good people ultimately get further in life; Cheating, luck, etc are only temporary leaps forward that don't amount to much over the long haul.

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The showdown had nothing to do with the knowledge as all the questions appeared to be easy (as everyone seemed to know all of them). It had to do with skill with a slingshot. That's why Green won- because Hunter was the best with the slingshot.

Calm down about Taylor. She'll be fine. She's a brat but so are millions of other kids in the nation. They turn into bratty adults but they still manage in life. It's no big deal.

Sophia is not "too nice". Completely to the contrary really. She just simply loves to whine and complain. Evidence by how she's always complaining about the council (no matter who is on it) and how they always make the wrong decision. She just made breakfast for everyone so she could complain about how she has to make breakfast for everyone. It's pretty obvious.

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I know many people don't like Taylor but at least she has a mind of her own. She will be the boss someday while all the others will be wishing they had the strength to say and do what they feel. The girl has balls and her parents should be proud. If they give out 50k she should get it just for standing up to all of them.

Seeing how the most of the other kids can't stand her I doubt that'll happen. As for her having a mind of her own, I don't think she does these things for that reason. She does them because she's spoiled and doesn't get along with other kids when she's not the alpha.

If her parents are proud of her, then we know where she gets her attitude. My parents would have disowned me if I acted like that on national tv.

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She does them because she's spoiled and doesn't get along with other kids when she's not the alpha

Exactly. Balls and bad attitude with no respect for rules, teamwork, or others ........for someone her age are two very different things. Many of the kids they've shown have balls... big balls even, but they know when to put that trait into good use and when to back those balls back. I never needed to be slapped on the hand verbally more than once or twice before i realized i'm the odd ball out who was making a fool of myself.

If her parents are proud of her, then we know where she gets her attitude. My parents would have disowned me if I acted like that on national tv.

ditto. no ifs ands or buts could get me to act like that on tv. to make it worse, it's not even attitude coming out that she wasn't thinking twice about... when being filmed for comments (all alone, sat down to get her opinion), she says things that would have me blue in the butt at home.

They turn into bratty adults but they still manage in life. It's no big deal.

absolutely true... but talking about this show would be boring if we didn't talk about the characters highlighted for the show. that's why we're all here even if one person chooses only "positive comments" ...there are going to be others who want to discuss all aspects/people. she wouldn't always be the topic if she didn't give us stuff to talk about. goodness knows this site is known for wearing out topics even when there's no new material (even though there is for this show and particularly in this thread).

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I didn't read the spoiler section, so I didn't know about the 50K star. I have to agreee and diagree with echo on this one. Setting one kid out as the "winner" of KN is completely against what this show seems to be about. It is supposed to be about teamwork and kids doing stuff adults normally have to do. It's not about survival like Survivor is, or popularity like Big Brother is. On the other hand I do not agree about giving the whole town 20K stars becuase all kids are winners and everybody is good and life is fair and blah blah blah... Life is definitely NOT fair and people who try harder are rewarded. You want to reward all the kids in the end? Put a plaque in the center of Bonaza City with the kids' pictures on it, and have it state.

IN 2007, THIS GROUP OF KIDS CAME HERE AND DID WHAT ADULTS COULDN"T. THEY MADE BONANZA CITY A SUCCESS!

That's all they need.

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Baron wrote:

On the other hand I do not agree about giving the whole town 20K stars because all kids are winners and everybody is good and life is fair and blah blah blah... Life is definitely NOT fair and people who try harder are rewarded.

After further thought, I think the way the producers will\should handle it is to give every child a clear chance to win the gold star. I suspect it will be a team\town reward that will be rigged so they can't loose, thus they all get gold stars. This way they earn it rather than have it handed to them. I agree they should earn it. The kids won't know the game is rig so they can't loose, just like the entire 40 days is rigged to prevent them from failing. As pointed out by you in a previous post, it would be make for a poor series to have it end as a failure. I personally think sending a few home with 25K and other just 5K, is sending the wrong message. That message says to me "work just as hard, but be reward less". How do does anyone compare an 8-9 year old to a 14-15 year old and justifiy that one is more worthy, worked harded, tried harded, etc, etc? Is artistic talent more\less worthy than those who haul water everyday? Success is a community effort.

Under current way the gold star is awarded, their is NOTHING a child can identify to be a god star winner. All each child can do is try their best and allow the council to subjectively decide who should be awarded. And as we have seen, its's process that changes each time. Maybe a kid will get lucky and break an arm while hauling water, that surely would be worth 20K. Maybe a child gets sad news from home that 95 year old grandma passed away, surely that is worth a gold star along with the fact the child was quite\reserved and never offended anyone..... Personally, I suspect adults are highly involved in the decision making process of the gold star. Adult might not make the decision, but they are there to make sure there is no cronyism is going; the fact the councils always seems makes a very WISE choice each time it comes awarding a gold star, while struggling to make most other decisions, seems a bit odd to me.

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Under current way the gold star is awarded, their is NOTHING a child can identify to be a god star winner. All each child can do is try their best and allow the council subjectively decide who should be awarded. And as we have seen, its's process that changes each time.

Lets take a look at the wiiners

Greg, Sophia, Hunter, Nathan and Mallory won gold stars for working hard.

Kennedy won it for entertaining the troops.

Laurel won it for her leadership

Michael, DK, Blaine and Morgan won it for setting good examples for the rest of the town.

The oldest and one of the youngest won the award.

5 girls and 6 boys won making it almost a 50/50 split for gender.

18% of the star winners are non-white. This coincides with the town population as it is 20% non-white.

You have a problem with how the stars are awarded, but these statistics show a pretty good demographic of the town.

Hard work and setting a good example leads the way for getting gold stars, but that's because those two things are simple to show and observe. You would expect them to be the leaders.

None of the gold star winners is completely undeserving of the award.

What kids have deserved the award that haven't won it? You can probably say that Mike, Anjay, and Zach deserve the award, but they were not eligible during their terms on the council. They may have won it by now if it weren't for that.

Is it totally fair? No, of course it isn't. But, how could it be made to be more fair? Have the town vote? Then the most popular kids would win it. Have the viewers at home vote? What was that guy's name on American Idol that kept winning even though he couldn't sing? Sanjaya or something? That's what happens when home viewers vote.

The only fair way, would be to have established criteria that every kid could acheive no matter what age, race, ethnic background, gender or religion. But, that goes beyond the scope of the show, and I could see the debates people would get into over it.

I think kids can identify with working hard, setting and example, being a good leader, or just being fun and helping others to forget about the drudgery of life in Bonanza.

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Baron, the only way it would be fair would be if they drew a name out of the hat each time, but of course that wouldn't make for a good show. What you posted fits. None of the winners were shown to be unworthy (why would the producers do that?), and those who don't get a gold star aren't shown to be worthy (why would the producers do that?).

I do wonder how it always comes down to just two kids. Maybe they're editing show that way to keep it simple to follow, it just seems very fishy, something more is going on, and just like a magic trick that defies the laws of nature, I might not be able to explain how its done, but I know it really didn't happen as it appears.

I truly must have a warped sense of justice and fair play. If I were a producer of this show and one of the kids came up to me after the 40 days and asked:

"
What should I have done better? I tried my best. I got up early and helped cook breakfast every day. I hauled water, I helped out every time I could. I was nice to everyone."

I couldn't have said:

"
Yes you did your best, but the other kids didn't think you deserved it. They had their reasons, you should ask them why you are one of the have-nots. The producers and CBS had no control over how they decided to award those gold stars, they could have given it just their friends as far as we know. Sorry, that's how life works sometimes, you do your best, and you still go home empty handed. Suck it up kid, you got a long hard life ahead, this lesson will prepare you for the fact that sometime hardwork results in a 'select' few getting
all
the spoils, while rest get nothing. Back in the 1880s, they were call Railroad Barons, they made millions off people who died just trying to survive. That's what this show was about, a few get rich, and others getting nothing. It's an important 'life lesson' "

Joa, your last post left me speachless, and that is rare. I've read it several times, and of all your posts I've read here, it is my favorite. You won't find me hammering on you for posts like that one. I don't agree with a single thing you wrote, but I must admit it was a pretty damn good post. If you're going to hit, really hit hard, I like that style. I am very good this stuff, and know what is good, and what isn't, and your last post was great as far as style is concerned. As much as you hate my god damn guts, you have to admit that I am best you have ever seen, because I am.

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Honestly echo, these kids are 10, 11, 12 years old (at least that's what it seems predominantly). They should know by now that not everyone can win everything all the time. I'm sure most of these kids have tried out for teams where some kids get cut, auditioned for a play that not everyone gets a good role in, competed in competitions where there's a clear winner determined. Heck, even taking tests in school where some people get better grades than others. If they can't understand the concept of why not everyone would get a gold star and it would completely shatter their self esteem for life to not get one, then I think these kids problems are a lot greater than a handed out gold star can fix.

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I agree with you on the dishes comment Katy.....the dishwater was dark, muddy brown (no soap suds). I thought gross. I'm sure Taylor did do a pile of dishes (maybe not all the ones we saw piled up). But I also believe that they were taken somewhere and was washed in hot soapy water. With 37 kids three meals per day lets say two dishes each meal....thats alot of dishes. They may have to symbolicly <spelling? wash the dishes, but for just health purposes the dishes must be sanitized, and washed properly too. JMHO :pixiedust:

Just a thought.....maybe why its so hard to get some of the kids to do any work (and theres been others beside you know who) is because they know they are getting out-side help. So why bother. Not saying its a fact.....just a thought. ;)

These children are working, have been given certain chores.....but its more of a lesson in the classes. Thats why they focus so much on the four districts. The comps is a way for them to try and change their class...trying to strive to better themselves and better where they live as most people in real life want to do. JMHO :pixiedust:

If I would change anything about the classes/comparsion I think it would have been neat if there would have have 4 different housing. Upper class in a house with nice funiture and bedding. Merchants in a house with average furnishings. Cooks in the housing they are using now. The laborers in maybe a big old tent. That would really show the difference in the classes. Just another of my thoughts..... :)

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TCS wrote:

With 37 kids three meals per day lets say two dishes each meal....thats alot of dishes. They may have to symbolically <spelling? wash the dishes, but for just health purposes the dishes must be sanitized, and washed properly too. JMHO
:pixiedust:

Just a thought.....maybe why its so hard to get some of the kids to do any work (and theres been others beside you know who) is because they know they are getting out-side help. So why bother. Not saying its a fact.....just a thought.
;)

TCS, I agree. These kids are way too relaxed\happy for a such a large group would have to cook\clean\etc all day. The real reality is that if the kids had to do what the show wants the audience to perceive these kids need to accomplish each day, this entire experiment would have collapsed within 48 hours or at the very least 80% of the kids would have checked out and we'd be watching a show of 10 kids from day three on. It doesn't bother me any that these kids, at best, do 5%-10% of the work required; I understand we are really watching a Summer camp that has been tweaked into a reality TV series. Kids sitting at home think is all very real, including the fact that these kids are were dropped off in the middle of no where and are actually running this town completely on their own. It's cool the kids believe it is very real, gives them something to think\talk about with their friends at school, and maybe there are a few teachers who have classroom discussions on Thursday morning. I bet there are even a few bright 10-12 year old kids who say "Wait a minute, there's no way they could actually do this because...."

SCRebel, your comments are better when you're bashing, at least I think so. Trying to make a valid argument doesn't seem to work for you. I'm not sure I can point out exactly what's missing, but your last post just seemed "flat" to me, kind of like a joke that bombs or something. Keep in mind you're in the presence of a master, so I'm trying to give you constructive feedback, maybe even teach you something.

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The real reality is that if the kids had to do what the show wants the audience to perceive these kids need to accomplish each day, this entire experiment would have collapsed within 48 hours or at the very least 80% of the kids would have checked out and we'd be watching a show of 10 kids from day three on.

I agree.....the 3 children that did go home wanted to because they missed their families

....not because they didn't like having to do work. Others have said they wanted to go home....but were talked out of it. Again the 3 that did go was because they were homesick, and the youngest of the group. JMHO :pixiedust:

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Keep in mind you're in the presents of a master, so I'm trying to give you constructive feedback, maybe even teach you something.

Presence, not presents. You would think a master such as yourself would know that.

By the way, I'm just messing with you.

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JFETCH wrote:

Presence, not presents. You would think a master such as yourself would know that.

Well JFETCH, ya got me on that one. If you go through pretty much any of my great posts, you will find nearly all of them filled with horrible spelling errors, poor grammar, and other signs of a person who has dyslexia. Common mistakes I make frequently are there\there, your\you're, is\are, as\at and a\an. Sometimes I drop entire words such as "It a wonderful day" when I should have written "It is a wonder day". Another bad thing I do is write "I like the mean of that" when I should have wrote "I like the meaning of that". Feel free to point out any sloppy writing and I will go back and correct it. As a matter of fact, as incoherent as my posts can be, I actually do spend extra time trying to correct these mistakes because I know that I make a lot of them. I personally don't give a damn if my sloppy writing makes me look bad, but I do care that what I say makes sense and that people reading my posts can understand what I am trying to say. I do take time, care, think what I want to say, and what kind of impact I want to achieve. Sometimes I do craft a specific message to have a poetic effect; it has more than one meaning depending on the frame of mind of the reader, that is why I am so damn good. If you think my intent is to attack and insult, then that is how it comes across, if it think my intent is to be nice, it comes across that way too. It's not me, it is YOU, that I am reflecting back sometimes.

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Then refute what I said instead of blabbering on about your greatness, since you are a master debater and all.

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I have dyslexia, very bad dyslexia. I sometimes go over my posts 4-5 times and correct mistakes, I'm a terrible speller too. Grammer is bad too. Just sayin'. ;)

They should know by now that not everyone can win everything all the time.

If they can't understand the concept of why not everyone would get a gold star and it would completely shatter their self esteem for life to not get one, then I think these kids problems are a lot greater than a handed out gold star can fix.

I know children out there that do feel bad if they don't win. Thats why so many sport groups for kids have "no score" games. At least thats what they are doing in the town I live in. I have both nieces and nephews that play soccer, softball, volleyball, and basketball. All are no score teams. After each game they all line-up and say "good game". The kids love it. Every child gets to play in the game, there's no bench warmers. The parents and families are asked to cheer for all the kids.....I wish they had this when I was a kid. I'm old, but I still can remember as a child....I sure didn't like to lose. JMHO :pixiedust: and I value yours.

Now, I also believe that these kids are smart enough to know that if they don't do the work and pitch in and help, that they don't deserve a gold star. So if they think they have worked and deserve it....I think they would feel bad not getting one. JMHO :pixiedust:

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